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Yellowcard Suing Juice WRLD

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. Melody Bot

    Your friendly little forum bot. Staff Member

    This article has been imported from for discussion. All of the forum rules still apply.

    Chris Eggertsen, writing at Billboard:

    According to a complaint filed Monday (Oct. 21) in U.S. District Court in California, former Yellowcard members William Ryan Key, Peter Michael Mosely, Longineu Warren Parsons and Sean Michael Wellman-Mackin allege Juice WLRD and his collaborators copied “melodic elements” from their 2006 song “Holly Wood Died” for the rapper’s blockbuster 2018 single without permission. They’re asking for damages in excess of $15 million and a “running royalty and/or ownership share” on all future exploitations related to the song or, alternatively, statutory damages “for each act of copyright infringement” and for defendants to be “permanently enjoined” from exploiting “Lucid Dreams” in the future.


    Yellowcard’s attorney, Richard Busch, issued a statement about the lawsuit in which he explained, “This was not a lawsuit the guys wanted to file. They put all of the parties on notice a long while ago and gave them every opportunity to try to resolve it. That notice was pretty much ignored leaving them with no real choice. As alleged in the Complaint, this is not just a generic Emo Rap song, but is a blatant copy of significant original compositional elements of Holly Wood Died in several respects. Beyond that, everything we have to say is in the Complaint.

  2. Tyler Mills

    Bread makes you fat?! Supporter

    wow. this is nuts
  3. Bayside 182

    Wolverine Supporter

    How do these usually turn out? If it’s not a direct sample used without permission, I imagine these are hard to prove.
  4. BraveYoungJables

    Newbie Supporter

    This seems pretty silly to me. I can hear the similarity but that melody is so generic, I doubt it was intentional.
  5. Bayside 182

    Wolverine Supporter

    Yeah I see some similarities but I expected it to be a bit more blatant based on the article.
    bradsonemanband likes this.
  6. tomtom94


    Well there's a headline I wasn't expecting to see today.
  7. tobytobes


    Lawyers are impressive sometimes.

    "Obviously if he listened to Fall Out Boy, he would have naturally started listening to Yellowcard/this song".

    That's a reach I wouldn't necessarily have thought of to use for leverage for trying to win this.
  8. DerekIsAGooner

    So assuming that this weekend...

    Leaving a comment here so I can remember when I get home from work today to listen to both songs so I can get an idea for myself of how similar the two are.
  9. slickdtc

    Regular Supporter

    It’s a bit of a stretch. I only thought I heard any similarities because I listened to both back to back upon hearing about this. I would have never made the connection otherwise. Seems unintentional, but that doesn’t mean they can’t win.

    Recent wins by Tom Petty (over Sam Smith), Marvin Gaye (over Ed Sheehan), and a Christian rapper (over Katy Perry).
    surgerone likes this.
  10. Mrk_Brdshw

    Dusted Groove

    Or how they dug up a quote where one time he said he listened to emo music in fifth grade (the exact year this song came out) and used it as supporting evidence lol

    I'd like to see all of these "objective similarities" just out of curiosity. You can easily hear similarities of the first line of "Holly Wood Died" ("...out on the highway to somewhere") and part of the hook of "Lucid Dreams" ("You left me falling and landing..."), but outside of that (piece of a) melody I'm not hearing much offhand.

    If anything it just sounds like influence of that genre just leaked into this song, but who knows.
  11. Bayside 182

    Wolverine Supporter

    Exactly. Listening to both now and I guess it’s mildly similar but this isn’t a situation where you listen to one of these songs and immediately are reminded of the other.
  12. joey-wan kenobi

    Happiness is a warm gun mama

    I hope someone rips off my old bands riff for a banger. Doubtful, as they were on Pure Volume and MySpace, but hey... it’s a $15mil dream I suppose.
  13. dnaps

    Newbie Supporter

    Hmmm. To win a case like this in California, Yellowcard will have to prove that Juice WRLD "had access" to their work (pretty easy), and the works are "substantially similar" (very hard). First the court will use an extrinsic test, i.e., "whether two works share a similarity of ideas and expression as measured by external, objective criteria." Also, not everything in an otherwise copyrighted work is protectable. Stuff that is considered "stock or standard pratice" in a genre is not protectable. I haven't read the complaint so I don't know exactly what Yellowcard is claiming (this stuff gets really granular and testimony from experts in music theory is usually required), but just from listening to the songs I'm going to guess they're claiming substantial melodic and rhythmic/phrasing similarities between Juice WRLD's chorus (1:09-1:55; 2:21-2:41) and Yellowcard's verse melody which is repeated throughout the song (0:01-0:50; 1:12-1:40; 2:46-3:06 (back vocals, left ear)). Just from listening I think Yellowcard will have a decent case of infringement. Though the lyrics are different, the melody and phrasing is (to me) quite similar (though not identical) just in those parts.
    DaydreamNation and Jim186 like this.
  14. sophos34

    Prestigious Prestigious

    this is an absolute garbage thing to do
    mercury, Aregala, Wharf Rat and 12 others like this.
  15. MacbethSin


    Yeah, I was prepared to agree with Yellowcard but hearing the songs...this is just petty as fuck.
    RyanPm40 likes this.
  16. Jim186


    Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'd say they have a pretty strong case. The Juice WRLD chorus and the Yellowcard intro are extremely similar. Although not as noticeable in context because of the style of the songs, if someone were to play both of these songs one after the other on an acoustic guitar and sing them for you, you'd notice undeniable similarities.
  17. atlas


    I guess the members of Yellowcard don't wanna get real jobs now that the band is over?

    in any event there's like a 0% chance they invented that melody, but that Christian rapper did win that lawsuit against Katy Perry over even more nonsensical shit so they probably saw that and were like "fuck it let's go"
    Analog Drummer and RyanPm40 like this.
  18. slimfenix182


    I went on Youtube to listen to both and a comment about the lawsuit has 2.7k likes and people are aggressively downvoting Holly lol. All the other album tracks are like 95% likes to dislikes, Holly is at like 50% now
    trevorshmevor likes this.
  19. heymeg


    This song has always reminded me of another song and it bugged me because I couldn't figure out what it sounded like but now I know. Thanks Yellowcard lol
  20. DandonTRJ

    ~~~ヾ(^∇^ Supporter

    Busch is a powerhouse. If he’s the one filing, it’s no joke.
  21. slimfenix182


    Also a comment said Holly had 20k views nine months ago so they've had like 70k views on it the last day if anyone wondered about that haha.
    Brent likes this.
  22. trevorshmevor Oct 22, 2019
    (Last edited: Oct 22, 2019)

    and use a pretty font Supporter

    Never understand why artists do this. Unless it’s directly taking money from their pockets, who gives a shit. Art is fluid. Real bad looks to YC on this one
  23. Mrk_Brdshw

    Dusted Groove

    These types of things are always muddy honestly. As it's been said, YC's verses and Juice WRLD's chorus share one distinct melody that's easily identifiable as being similar in its phrasing, but I don't know. It's a small piece of a melody and there's so much else going on in the song that it doesn't play a huge part in the overall presentation so regardless, this is kind of lame IMO.

    Yeah, I generally default to the side of defending the artists unless it's perfectly clear they stole something or used an uncredited sample as a prominent piece of their song. That Katy Perry case was like someone suing over a chord progression.
    Analog Drummer likes this.
  24. Dead_Presley


    Ooph. Cmon..
  25. SFguitar


    Isn't Ryan Key known to be a douchebag?
    RyanPm40 and Brent like this.