Will Pugh of Cartel

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Recently I was able to schedule a Zoom call with Will Pugh, the lead vocalist of Cartel, to discuss his range of emotions ahead of Chroma’s 20th anniversary, and the band’s re-recorded version of that album that recently sold out its first pressing on vinyl. Cartel will be on the road supporting the re-recorded version of Chroma with support from Hunny, Landon Conrath and Macseal. Cartel has since announced a Field Day Records pressing of their 2011 EP, In Stereo, that went on sale today. I asked Will about the vinyl pressings, his Vans Warped Tour 2025 experience, and much more. Tickets for the Chroma 20th Anniversary Tour are on sale here.

Thank you so much for your time today, Will! Let me first start off by saying that even though I wasn’t personally in attendance at my local DC Warped Tour date, I thought Cartel did an amazing job. You guys mixed nostalgia with great musicianship during your set. So kudos to your band. What will you remember most about your Vans Warped Tour experience on the 30 year anniversary?

I think it’ll probably be being able to hang out with all the bands again. That’s the most fun part about those festivals, and especially one like Warped Tour, where the behind the scenes camaraderie is kind of the thing that, if you’re not in one of the bands, and get to experience it, that’s not really part of the tale of Warped Tour, so to speak. So, it’s a lot of fun. It’s like a family reunion, just to get to hang out, and then obviously the crowd was awesome. A lot of people! There’s a lot of first happening in the process of doing, and doing that show, specifically. So yeah, it was a lot of fun to kind of get it over with and experience it with everybody. And it really set a good precedent for the remaining Warped Tour dates.

Absolutely! And the <DC date> did well enough for them to already announce another DC date for next year, which I’m excited about. It might be possible for me to make the next one…Do you have any feedback for Kevin Lyman, if he was reading this article…what could be improved upon?

I mean, honestly, the only thing that went kind of South was just the weather. The second day it just started raining towards the evening. But obviously, nobody can help that. But yeah, I mean, I think they did a great job of making it easy and fun for the artists.

The production team did great from what I saw.

Yeah, the fans were awesome. Everybody was respectful. I don’t remember hearing anything like out of whack going on. I think all the bands had a great time. There were no rumors flying around and complaining. So yeah, nothing is ever a “no notes” event, but this one was from my perspective. It was great!

That’s awesome. And also everybody’s obviously more mature than they were 30 years ago and stuff like that. It’s just a part of growing up. So, you guys recently launched a vinyl pre-order of your re-recorded version of Chroma, which everybody was so excited about on our site. And I know it did very well in the pre-orders. How happy is your band with the finished product of the new re-record?

It’s funny because even when we decided to kind of take on the project and make it happen…I mean it was for a couple different reasons. The first foremost being that we wanted to get our rights back to it, in the sense of being able to press it on vinyl, because we found a lot of success in pressing vinyl on our other albums. And it’s not that we were trying to pull it away from Sony, they were making it very difficult for us to be able to do it because licensing departments are tough to work with anyway, and then they were kind of starting to vanish. And every time we went back, it was a new contact, and somebody <else> trying to figure out what’s going on. So at the end of the day, it was just like, “Alright, T. Swift, Her Majesty did it. So we should probably follow suit and do it too.” And, yeah, I also think about a lot of things that happened. We’ll randomly listen to one of the old tracks and realize that we haven’t played it in like 20 years. <Laughter> Like, oh, we did it that way… It’s the subtle things. It’s just kind of evolved over time, and the way we play things live, and just the way records sound nowadays, we just felt it might be best for the album to be able to kind of update it. Give it a little bit of a makeover. And there’s nothing really drastically different <with the re-recording>. We obviously tried to keep the fans in mind. Because after we put it out, it won’t be ours anymore. We tried to make sure we kept all that in mind and made sure we weren’t gonna ruffle feathers or make anybody feel like…we’re trying to be respectful of the fact that it is a fan favorite record, and we didn’t want to do anything too wild. But we also wanted to be able to update it. For me, I just want, when I listen to it, I don’t want it to sound dated, but a little more Hi-Fi, a little bit more punchy and a little more of where we’re at now, sonically and where tastes are. “The Minstrel’s Prayer,” that changed a little bit. That’s a little bit more modern. I mean, it’s still the same vibe. Nobody’s gonna think otherwise. And we played the new version on When We Were Young fest, and on the Andrew McMahon cruise last year. And I don’t think anybody even really necessarily noticed. <Laughter>

That’s good! <Laughter> And also, your publicist shared the advance with me so that’s why I’m nodding along with you. I agree with your sentiment.

I mean, there’s couple of guitar solos and “Runaway” is a little different, and things like that, but I think fans will be happy with being able to listen to it side by side with stuff that they’re listening to now, and it will make a little bit more sense, contextually. So that, and obviously the punk rock <ethos> of “get our rights back!” <Laughter> There was definitely an impetus overall. We’re extremely happy with it. I mean, everything down to even the artwork. I think it’s good, and in a respectful way of doing it, and that it also allows us to kind of fall back in love with it again.

Have you had your hands on the actual product yet?

The vinyl? No, it was a true preorder so that we didn’t already have a bunch in hand and kind of try to figure out on the back-end what to do with it. But, we were instrumental in the artwork in every facet of it. We were all hands on deck there. So I think people are going to be really, really happy because there’s a lot of love in our work itself. One thing I really like is that we used a bunch of photos that we took during the recording of Chroma and put them in there.

That’s cool! Yeah, the fans will really appreciate that. What are some of your most vivid memories from the Chroma era of Cartel?

I mean, I think it was crazy for us at the time, like the true out of body experience, was probably the TRL stuff that we did. Just because as kids grow, and I’m seeing Blink and Green Day on TRL, you’re like, “Oh, shit. They made it.” And seeing New Found Glory, and obviously that was kind of a band that we were able to see very small, grow very big, and reach those heights.It was things like that. Just it made us feel like we had kind of accomplished something. It was sort of a pipe dream. Obviously those things don’t necessarily mean anything in and of themselves, but it was just one of those <moments where you say> “wow, that happened?”

A time capsule kind of thing, but it’s still a cool marker of your guys success, for sure.

And the Madden soundtrack was tight that one year, where I think it was Taking Back Sunday and others…

I was looking for my old PS2 game that I play sometimes for nostalgia purposes…

Yeah, things like that were just always kind of fun because for us as the band, they’re different from what other people might say. Even some buddies that I’d become friends with over the last couple years and kind of discovered that I was in a band were like, “Oh, this guy’s in a band! Check them out…They were on Madden!” And for other people, those things are bigger than they are necessarily for us.

Yeah, that was what would probably impress my son more than me telling him that I talked to rock stars today. He’d probably say, “Oh, but he was on the Madden soundtrack?!?” <Laughter>

<Laughter> Exactly, I mean highlights for me, I guess, was it’s more so just kind of being able to see organically the climb and the growth of shows we were playing, and people going from just kind of nodding along saying, “oh yeah, this band’s alright” to everybody knowing the words. Those sorts of things are kind of little things for us, that kind of means that people are connected. For me, I go to plenty of shows that I’m just like, “Yeah, this band’s good.” I don’t necessarily know the words, though. And then there’s other shows I go to and I know every word, every single one. And that kind of stuff is important for me, because I know, as a music fan, where things connect, and you’re like, I can’t wait to go to the show and sing every word, because I want to sing it with everybody else too! That sort of stuff is really meaningful to see and to be part of for everybody in the audience. So to have a hand in creating those moments, that’s the kind of stuff that really resonates in the soul.

And you kind of hinted at this a little bit, but at what point in your band’s career did you realize you had a pretty decent chance of finding success through a life in music?

Crazy enough, I think it was on The Starting Line tour, because we had played and we started touring in the middle of ‘04. But we’re just kind of doing whatever tours. I think we’d done a Militia Group tour, where it was like us, The Rocket Summer, Branston and…A Beautiful Mistake were on it. So we did that, and then went right into the studio to record Chroma. And those were anywhere from 200 to 400-cap rooms. We did really well with our hometown shows for different bands like those, but we hadn’t really done anything too remarkable at that point in time. Everything was very much in reach, and stuff we had even done locally, just high school band shows. But I think when we went on tour, like we did the Acceptance tour that fall with, oh, this was crazy…because it was with Paramore and Panic! At the Disco. I think when we did The Starting Line tour that following spring, we picked up a booking agent, and it happened to be the same one as The Starting Line’s … but it went from about 400-cap rooms, to maybe six or 700 people <rooms>. Then to go from that to The Starting Line where it’s like the first show was to a 2,500-cap venue, sold out. And then you have people actually starting to react to the music. That’s kind of where it sort of turned a corner for us. We’re like, this could work. We can actually grow this to be something that goes long term. And it’s not just like, oh yeah, we got signed to a small indie label, or whatever. We’re doing cool steps along in the process. But yeah, I think that was the point where things started to <take off> and you start seeing the record sales kind of go up, in our view. Like now we have to order more merch for the whole tour? Things like that started to click in.

Yeah, that’s a good problem to have that kind of organic success. And saying, “we need to order more merch because there’s an actual demand for it?”

Yeah, absolutely.

So what advice would you give the young bands just starting out today?

I wish I had a really good answer for that…I think the most important thing, at the end of the day, if “Grandpa Will” can let you sit on his rocking chair for a minute, it would be to say, “Whatever you do musically, any photos, videos, whatever you may put out there, just make sure that you like it.” Because there’s gonna be a lot of people telling you what to do. And they’re not necessarily wrong, but at the end of the day, it’s your art. You have to live with it. No one’s gonna be like, “Oh yeah, their photographer was a real piece of work, and here’s a stupid photo that the band took like that…” And we thankfully never experienced that. But there’s a lot of opinions that start flying around, and there’s a lot more, like satellites in orbit, if you will. And I think even from a critical feedback sort of situation, you can’t please other people. You just have to do it for yourself. And if you can’t do it for yourself, then you shouldn’t do it, because you’re not going to be happy with it. That I can say, from experience. Beyond that, that’s just the practical…the things that even when we had, I wouldn’t call it our hiatus, but when we sort of just pushed back from the “table” a little bit, the thing that I appreciated the most, and what I was able to go back to is the friendships that I made along the way. Being able to go see bands that we’ve toured with, and when they come through town, I get to go say “what’s up” and get to hang out. Those are the kind of <things> where when you go on tour with a band…there’s just a different sort of relationship that gets sparked up. And you’re friends for life, even though you don’t know what their dog’s name is, or anything like that. We’re just in this time bubble, so to speak, where we get to exist as buds because we shared something together. And being able to go back and see all those friends, and get to hug their necks, and hang out for five minutes, it really keeps the engine moving.

Yeah, for sure. I kind of think what you’re saying is you want to be your most authentic self for the first part of your answer, right?

Yeah.

That’s a great way of putting it. Your upcoming headlining tour features some great guest spots with bands that hopefully you will become friends with later on, if you aren’t already. Hunny, Landon Conrath, and more. While this is a Chroma anniversary tour, how are you building out the set list in the show in general?

I mean, we’re trying to figure out exactly what to do there. We did the 10th anniversary, and just played it straight through, and then had a little encore at the end. So, production-wise, we definitely have gone full-tilt crazy on setting up a really cool experience. That’s what I’m kind of calling it…”The Chroma Experience.” It’s not just like, “Yeah, we’re gonna play the songs you’ve heard…” We all understand what’s going on there. But for this though, we’re kind of raising the bar with the lighting production, just to kind of make it something where people have something else to go home with besides, “Oh, they played the songs and they sounded good.” I think our band has had mostly decent shows throughout our careers. I can think of a couple that were kind of rough, though…

Those are the ones that always seem to stick out, right? The worst ones that keep you up at night…<Laughter>

Yeah, I got 1,000 shows under the belt, and there’s two that you’re saying that were rough. But you get sick, and things happen. It is what it is. But, I think fans will be really happy with what they get to experience <on the new tour>. As far as actually attending the show and seeing it, we’re still kind of figuring out exactly what other songs we’re going to play and how we’re gonna do it. Because, obviously, the album’s gonna get played in full, and that’s no surprise to anybody. But how do we build in some anticipation? So, yeah, just kind of working through those moments now that Warped Tour has passed, we got one under the belt, so we can just switch up the set list a little bit, but we already kind of know what to expect. So now we can kind of set our eyes forward to the Chroma tour and figure it out. I think part of that vibe is getting the opening bands, that help the audience sort of get in the groove, and say, “alright, we’re at a show. I can put my phone down for a little bit.’ I’m really excited for all of it. Landon <Conrath> has some really cool stuff. Hunny is a really cool band. I think that people will really enjoy them. It’s such a good vibe leading into the Chroma set. And Macseal. I really love their stuff. It’s really cool to me when younger bands play, and you hear a sound, and it’s like dude, I haven’t heard that since I was in high school!

A band beyond their years kind of thing?

Yeah, it’s just really cool to see that that type of stuff didn’t go anywhere. There’s still people carrying the torch for all different shades of this scene and all the different varieties that it provides. It’s really cool. So I definitely wanted to highlight them. Then we get, kind of one off with Winona Fighter and The Summer Set, in Nashville. So that’ll be fun. Haven’t met Winona Fighter before. They’re rad, and obviously we’ve known The Summer Set for forever, so it’d be cool to have them for at least a day. I think overall, the tour is just starting to kind of come together and all those little bits.

It looks like you guys come through Baltimore too, so hopefully mid-September should be good for me. Field Day Records seem to be pushing out your back catalog. So by the time I prepped these questions, it seemed like you already had another pre-order up for In Stereo.

That was the one record in our catalog that never was pressed. It was the EP, but yeah, Field Day Records always does a great job. They were the ones who pressed Chroma for us the first time and then that relationship grew into a really great one. And they do great work with all the rest of the vinyl that they do. I think they’re probably one of the best out there. I put them in the top three, for sure. As far as boutique labels that curate cool stuff and do really quality work, that’s the first priority for them. It’s not just, obviously, the records that people know, but they really put a focus on making them the best they can be. And that’s something that we’ve always kind of hung our hat on as well. So to link up with them for that, and then obviously going through all the catalog to finally get this one out was special, because now it’s like, “alright, now we got our entire catalog on vinyl!” And In Stereo, I guess as an EP itself, was a very pivotal record for us. We had done Cycles right before we did the Wind-Up Records gauntlet, and then got off of that…and Jeff left and went back to school. So now, we’re a four piece all of a sudden, and I remember, to this day, we were sitting there talking, and we got a call from a booking agent saying, “hey, look guys, you aren’t touring as much as this <band> and that…” And there’s only so many roster spots, and they had to jump ship and look at all this stuff. And we’re sitting there kind of at the crucial point in our career, at a hotel eating, and saying to everyone, “Are you in? Or, are you out? This is a fine time to say you’re out, and no one’s gonna be mad.” Everybody opted in, so then we started working on In Stereo. And then to have that come out and it was sort of our first foray into saying like, we’re going to DIY this thing again. And since then, it’s obviously Collider, and then the re-record and…we’re working on a new one! So it all kind of led from that, and from us being able to do it kind of proved the concept that we can do it on our own and write some cool songs in the process. There’s a couple on there that I’m very, very proud of. I’m proud of all of them, but it’s like picking a favorite child.

That’s really great to hear. The last question I have for you is that you hinted at a new record. Any teasers that you can give, or any hints on the direction that you guys took on the new one?

This is my favorite thing I’ve ever done. I don’t think it’s because, “Oh, it’s just the newest thing.” I’m actually more proud of this than I can remember. I think you could go back to other records and say yeah, I was proud of those as well. But I think this one is just…20 years into it, knowing everything that I know now and knowing what, like, what the band’s been through, and what I’ve been through, this one’s very, very special for me. I think people are going to be very surprised by what they hear. It’s not what you would think, but I think it’s exactly what we would write if we were starting a band right now. And that’s kind of the point. I mean, everybody who’s heard the demos says it’s still very much Cartel. But it also is very much like right now too. So there’s gonna be some people that are caught off guard, and there’s gonna be some people that are very, very happy. And then there’s gonna be people that might be put off a little bit because it’s essentially a record that flowed with no self-censorship. I feel like there’s always been these sort of guardrails that I put up for myself where I think, “I can’t say that. Or, you can’t do this, or you can’t do that…What would Cartel do?” And with go-round, I think it’s so far removed. I mean, shit. Collider came out in 2013, we’re 12 years on from that, and the record won’t come out this year, so it’s going to be 13 years by the time it does come out. And I feel like it’s where we can do whatever feels right.

Yeah, you’ve earned that.

Yeah, so it’s a little bit of freedom. It’s honestly, a whole hell of a lot of fun. No one’s gonna have a chance to breathe until the record is over. It’s straight gas from beat one to the last beat. So I’m very excited about it. I can’t wait for people to hear it. We obviously got to give the tip of the cap to Chroma and celebrate it during its time, and I think it’s really kind of poetic in the sense that this record is getting finished right before we go and celebrate the one that made it possible to do this one. And then to celebrate with all the fans and everybody who’s been a part of it, and get to show the new stuff to the world afterward, it’s gonna be a lot of fun. I’m very excited!

You got me excited too, Will! Thanks again, it was great talking with you.

Thanks, Adam!

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