Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Jul 7, 2016.
You're probably a bigot, if you're conservative, yes.
Inherently? No. Maybe not.
Is the platform of republican and libertarian politics in the US racist? Yeah. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to think otherwise. Their policies do nothing to help anyone who isn't a rich white man, and actively hurt lots of other demographics.
I feel like a big part of the problem here is a lot of people try to be neutral or a Devils advocate but neutrality does not exist in this context. Your neutrality doesn't make you a great open minded person. Complacency and neutrality does nothing but benefit the oppressor and damn the oppressed every time. I get it like I used to pride myself in being neutral and "getting" both sides but it's just not feasible to equate some things
OK. I feel that's a bit of a broad brush overstatement on the whole but I can understand how you'd come to that view. There's certainly a lot to be rightfully angry about.
I believe there are one or two decent, non-racist conservatives on this planet, but I don't think this punk rock forum is really a welcoming place for that line of thought.
Wasn't trying to be rude. Sorry.
That is no doubt true on an individual basis - but again, as we've said in this thread, if you're supporting conservative ideals that have racist roots and harmful ramifications against marginalized groups, then you are participating in and perpetuating that harm. Even if you are a decent person who doesn't have actively racist thoughts or intentions.
Intent is different than impact. Understanding that is crucial.
To go back to the article. It's a nice feeling when you know your favorite artists are using their platform responsibly and are not morons.
what is SJW slang even is it like bae and swag
SJW stands for SiJourney Weaver, right?
I agree, which is why it bums me out to see Republican/Conservative as a synonym for racist/evil/etc. I'm by no means neutral on social justice (I'm registered as Green!), but I don't like seeing broad brushes painted over so much of the population. There are shades of grey, even across the political isle.
Yeah this is great, I wish I could get into his music more! I've sure tried to a ton.
If even by your own admission there are a select handful who aren't bigots and that there is more than enough to rightfully be angry about it, then it's a fair generalization, is it not?
The burden of proof isn't on people who aren't conservative when Republican politicians make it their life's work to oppress a lot of people in the name of helping themselves get ahead. If a person for some reason identifies as a conservative and genuinely doesn't hold similar beliefs, then it's on you to explain why you're not. Not the other way around.
Beliefs aren't neutral. One doesn't just get to have them without interrogation. And some political opinions are terrible. By the logic provided, one would have to accept fascism as a legitimate perspective, but we don't because we have seen it. The difference is, we've also see what conservatism doea and it involves the deaths of subaltern people, or depriving them of their rights. Sometimes all at the same time.
I don't think you DO agree. (Which, okay, fine, but I'm going to address it because I do not want what i'm saying to be misconstrued this much.) I am saying that their intent means exactly nothing if they are voting for principles and ideals that support systemic oppression. It doesn't matter if they're not actively hateful people if they are choosing to be complicit in hateful systems - which are at the root of most conservative ideals.
Of course not all conservative individuals are evil on a person-by-person. But if a person votes for something with racist connotations, even if their reason for doing so is not a consciously racist one, they don't get to divorce that impact from their actual intent.
This post most accurately (and more eloquently) describes what I've been trying to say. Thanks.
I agree with all the points he made (aside from me, as a black person, now being able to openly use slurs towards other ethnic groups) but I really wish he would have said something about the NotAllMen group.
Yeah, I guess I'm defending a republican party that has already hung itself with the rope of Trump.
My POV is that I once thought all republicans were brain dead until I met folks who explained their lines of thought with economic, constitutional, etc reasoning. I didn't come to agree with them, but I regretted lumping all R voters in the same pile, something I see happening more and more today with Trump's rise.
The GOP is inarguably tied into racist, shitty 1950s-era ideas right now. It will be interesting to see if they can recover after losing this election into some sort of evolved, more progressive incarnation. Or maybe Trump will win and then jfc.
No, I do DO agree with you.
Lol. From wiki: As a fallacy, the identification and name of straw man arguments are of relatively recent date, although Aristotle makes remarks that suggest a similar concern;
Aristotle, known dirty SJW
i hope no Wavves shows get disrupted by clowns who will likely go now just to stir up shit.
100% have the same opinion as you, people who think all other people on the other side of the political spectrum are dumb bigots show their lack of intelligence as well. Sit down and have a rational conversation with the "other" "bad" half of the country and you'll find some people have legitimate reasons for voting and believing in governing that way. If they can't see that certain ideologies of the modern day GOP are beyond stupid then I'll agree they are irrational bigots most likely. I thought the same way as some of these people but if you hear different perspectives it's clear why some people lean left/right. It's a lot easier to villainize and give up on trying to converse and change perception like most of the people in this thread have. I 100% agree with those who have said that cynical look that half of the country is horrible is just as poisonous as thought from the right. Personally I don't know how this many people go through life with that attitude.
anyway... racial consciousness isn't cynicism. off to the gym.
The republican party of the United States is undeniably bigoted in their policies. You can spin your reason for voting them in however you like, but at the end of the day it's still support for a bigoted political party.
Your argument is no different than when people in denial want to use the "they hate gay people but they're good people overall" argument about their grandparents or uncle. Newsflash, if someone is bigoted, they're a bad person. If a political party runs on a bigoted platform and you still want to support them for other reasons, you're choosing to ignore that to vote in something to make your own life better. So, yeah, maybe you're not actively racist or homophobic, but you can't cast that vote knowing what they run on, and then also get to defend yourself as someone who isn't paired with a group of racists and homophobes. It's not cynical or refusing to create a dialogue, it's just a simple fact.