Warped Tour 2018 Lineup Announced • Page 5

You’ve never once called a guy a name before? Like dick or bastard or asshole?

 

Son, don’t die on that hill.

 

I’m not saying I haven’t. But I’ve never taken the time to sit down and write an entire song based around those juvenile, abrupt feelings you may sometimes feel when upset about something. You can’t use the volatile, heat of the moment argument when he actually had time and energy to spend on this song and lyrics.

 

That song sounds like something an angry 16 year old would write, but that guy's in his 20s. It's pathetic.

 

Since other people addressed the sexism, let me just say: I wrote many, many "negative" songs that my band released just last year about a guy who not only lied and cheated, but abused me to the point that I am currently living with PTSD.

I didn't use a single slur or call him a single name, but trust me - I got the point across and dragged him like a sack of potatoes over a riverbed with jagged rocks at the bottom. It's called good writing, and it is entirely possible to achieve.

If this person in this band is unable to do that, then he is an objectively bad lyricist.

 

Also: calling a woman a "whore" is not the same as calling a man any of those things. It's an incredibly gendered term with all kinds of negative and yes, violent connotations. It's a false equivalence.

 

Why do so many of your posts lead me to believe you've got some really fucked up views of women? This is, what, the fifth time you've walked right up to (and I'd say over) the edge. I'm getting super tired of it.

 

Yeah. This needs to stop in these threads.

 

Like, you've literally already had this argument and had it explained to you.

 

He’s been in essentially every thread with an accused musician spouting off horribly views. At 27 years old maybe it’s time for some introspective self-care to see why you are the way you are.

 

"hey man what have you been up to lately?"

"mostly just defending pieces of shit online, it takes up a lot of my time. But its so worth it."

 

Good lord what did I just come back and read.

 

posts from a guy who doesn't believe women have the experiences they do, i think. also a general lack of perspective on how certain words and phrases have extreme historical weight and context, and as such they contribute to the negative experiences pretty much every woman is destined to have in this life

edit: ohhh it was rhetorical

 

Okay I’m sorry. I’m not trying to annoy you or anything I’m just stating how it honestly makes no sense logically if you take everything into perspective.

 

How does violence play into this? Words change meaning over time just like the other words I had listed. I personally don’t call anybody any of those words, I’m just stating how, taking everything into perspective, there a lot of logical fallacies.

 

*Checks current iterations on the word whore*

Yup, still means whore to 95% of the world.

 

You don’t call anyone those words but you think it’s fun to sing along an call a woman you’ve never met a whore? Doesn’t add up.

Words like these have violent connotations because they’ve historically been used in conjunction with the systematic degradation and subjugation of women. Do we really have to go through all of world history for it to make sense? Does every woman have to lay bare her experience of abuse on the internet before you can even try to empathize? Cmon.

 

If you personally don’t use those words there has so be a reason why you don’t, deep down. So figure out why you personally wouldn’t use those words but are defending lyricists who do.

 

I don’t think you know what logical means.

 

Honestly, that seems like what is on the horizon. The "Final Full Cross Country Tour" branding seems really prominent now, which at least to me indicates Warped is still going to exist in some form.

 

Here's the thing: I'm a human being ruled by logic. And as a human woman, I've had men tell me that my reasoning was inherently flawed from day 1 simply because of the gender someone slapped on my birth certificate the day I was born. I have yet to meet a man whose sense of logical reasoning outweighed mine - even when I'm emotional.

Logic: reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

It really grinds my gears when folks defending established gender norms assume the position that the heteronormative "masculine" viewpoint is the one that automatically adheres to the rules of "logic" when there is nothing inherently logical about them.

These issues are nuanced. They are largely based on emotion. They HAVE to be. And yet, the assumption is made that the "logical" conclusion is the one based on the avoidance of emotional expression - unless a slighted man wants to call his ex a whore? Where is the avoidance of emotion in that?

Nah. Keep it.

It is literally illogical to pretend there is nothing inherently biased or violent about a man using slurs to refer to his ex or to defend systemic misogyny in modern music and I don't really appreciate you insinuating otherwise. And yes, the meaning of "whore" has changed - but in recent history (meaning the last few hundred years) it has been used as a gender-charged slur to degrade not only sex workers but women who practice any form of sexual agency as well as to degrade women who have done nothing except exist and perhaps had the audacity to reject a man or to want to be with someone who wasn't him. Imagine. I also find it super interesting that you lead off with an apology to Jason but not to me.

Feel free to explain to me explicitly and specifically from a position completely uninfluenced by personal bias and emotion why it is illogical to draw conclusions based on lifetimes of systemic subjugation and violence from a SWB calling his ex a whore in an unchecked, publicly performed song and I'll yield. But here's the thing: you can't because you're operating from a fallacious viewpoint to begin with.

 

I really appreciate the emotional labor you put into these posts, time and again.

That goes for all of you wonderful women who continue to show up in these threads.

 

I appreciate that. I just don't understand how in 2018 I'm still having to explain why calling a woman a whore in a song is problematic. I'd be baffled if past experiences hadn't taught me how illogical that would be.

 

For what it's worth, I've seen at least one guy post on here that chorus opened his eyes to this stuff. So somewhere, it's getting through.

 

I always appreciate your posts as well, you have a much better way with words than I!