Venom (Ruben Fleischer, October 5, 2018) Movie • Page 32

genuinely kinda annoying how much "unintentionally funny" gets thrown around with this. i think the dude from zombieland putting in a scene of the main character jumping into a fish tank and eating a raw lobster is purposefully playing for laughs lol

 

Probably one of the top 3 scenes in the film tbh lol

 

First of all, Adam West did not play anything straight in that series; everything was done with a wink and nod and tongue planted firmly in cheek, by everyone involved. I haven't seen Punisher: War Zone so I'll take your word for it, but just because that movie accomplished what it set out to do doesn't mean this movie did lol. Literally any scene without Tom Hardy in it is played so straight that it's like it's from a different movie. The entirety of Riz Ahmed's scenes are like something out of the DC cinematic universe. Also just because a movie has comic relief doesn't mean the whole thing is being made to be funny. It really reminded me a lot of Justice League, tbh, where it felt like two different movies stitched together, only it was just some of Hardy's scenes that were funny instead of an entire half of the movie.

I will say, one thing that was funny was watching Ruben Fleischer turn into Tommy Wiseau in the wake of the well-deserved thrashing this movie got critically. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall the film being a comedy or a campy and intentionally ridiculous romp being brought up once in the run-up to release, by anyone.

This is a good example. Garfield was a good Spider-Man (although he was a terrible Peter Parker) and the ASM2 suit was amazing, but literally everything else about the movie was absolute garbage.

I'll give Venom one thing: I'd rather watch this again any day of the week than sit through that disaster again.

 

'Venom' Director Discusses R-Rating, Promises Most Violent Marvel Character

 

Our movie wants to honor the comics as close as we can tonally

The comics are violent and dark and ridiculous and funny. That ... has been Tim's argument.

 

tater tots and chocolate

 

My argument is that the movie itself was not made or sold that way. It was only after it came out and was laughed at/derided that they shifted into saying it was supposed to be a ridiculous and funny comedic action romp. You don’t say this:

...if the movie you’re making is an intentionally ridiculous and funny action-comedy. I would like to see a Venom movie like that, I really would. This wasn’t it though, not intentionally anyway.

 

But you cut out the entire first part of the sentence ... "our movie wants to honor the comics as close as we can tonally" and "we really want to honor the comics and the character from the comics and I feel like we did a really good job."

 

I guess what I'm really saying is that Ruben Fleischer doesn't understand the comics, then? Because I'm currently not doing work and instead trying to find a single instance of this movie being marketed as an action-comedy prior to its release. I got nothin' thus far. Everyone talked about the movie as a dark and violent take on the Venom character and that was reflected in the marketing as well. Then, post-release, the marketing switched to play up the comedy angle.

 

The only way I can halfway agree is in saying that some of the humor was probably found while making the film. As I said before, Sony likely went into this not having comedy in mind as much as where it ended up. But, Tom Hardy clearly was going for fun, & Ruben Fleischer clearly had the right sensibilities for that & embraced it, & Kelly Marcel was clearly brought in during production to help further embrace that tone.

That discovery of the exact sensibilities is probably why the villain isn't quite as hammy as he should be, but the main creative voices (Tom, Kelly, & Ruben) OBVIOUSLY knew they were being funny.

Unless you somehow think "pile of bodies, pile of heads" & Venom kissing Eddie & "like a turd in the wind" were meant to be serious?

 

That's an issue with marketing, not the movie as it was made by Fleischer (and Hardy) ... who made a very Venom movie.

 

But he didn't do it intentionally, which is what I've been saying this whole time lol. It was unintentionally funny.

And also I'm not just talking about the trailers, look at what Fleischer and the actual people in the movie said on the press tour.

 

The international marketing by Tencent was funny before the film was out. Sony's domestic marketing team misunderstanding the film until after it came out isn't on Tom, Kelly, & Ruben.

 

You literally just quoted him saying he intentionally made the movie tonally like the comics ...

 

The rest of that quote demonstrates that he doesn't understand the comics, so he probably honestly thought he was. I know lots of people that think there is no humor to Venom, that he's just a grisly, dark, and violent character. They're the ones who complained this movie wasn't dark and serious enough lol

 

The rest of that quote demonstrates he absolutely understands the comics ... it's both! And the movie gives both. Which is why it's a great, ridiculous, funny, fun, and violent Venom movie. Cause that's tonally a fuck ton of Venom comics.

 

He thinks the tone of the comics is "darker, more violent, more vicious . . . than I think anyone's ever seen before". You're saying (and I'm agreeing) that Venom is also a funny character, that it isn't all about the darkness, the violence, and the viciousness solely for their own sake. He made what he thought was a dark, violent, vicious movie and then backpedaled after it came out. The proof is right there in his own words. Idk what else to say honestly.

 

The proof is right there in his own words ... and that's why taking one quote where he's answering a question specifically about one part of the movie, and ignoring everything else .. is just silly:

“So I wanted to be sure that the movie we were making was as true and authentic to the comics as we could make it.”

“That being said we weren’t able to include ‘Spider-Man’ in our movie. So we were starting with a deficit, in terms of being true to the comics.”

“In every other aspect, whether it was tonally or just giving nods to the comics, we really wanted it to be true to the comics as we could make it.”

Fleischer’s desired tone for “Venom” and the relationship between Tom Hardy's Eddie Brock and the alien symbiote that merges with his body was inspired by several movies.

His biggest reference point being the 1981 cult classic “An American Werewolf In London,” “which revolves around someone going through a transformation that they don’t really understand.”

“There’s also a real theme of a buddy movie in our film," added Fleischer. "So I pulled from ’48 Hours’ and ‘Midnight Run’.”

More specifically, though, Fleischer again insisted that its tone came straight from the "Venom" comics.

“It was always really important that the film was entertaining.”

“The first script I read for ‘Venom’ was really funny and had great jokes. So that was the tone from the beginning.”

“But we all took our cues from the comics. Where Eddie and Venom have a complicated but also entertaining relationship.”

“The Venom of the comics is very funny. He diffuses his horrific appearance and monstrous qualities with humor.”

“In the comics he has great lines and one-liners, great jokes and catch phrases.”

“I was really excited to embrace the tone of the comics, which has combinations of horror and humor.”

 

^ Evidence that Ruben Fleischer knew what kind of film he was making. Tom Hardy clearly knew, too. So did late addition Kelly Marcel. So did Tencent Pictures, who handled the Chinese marketing.

Was the initial script before Tom, Kelly, & Ruben took it in its final direction not meant to be so funny? Almost certainly, but all sorts of films evolve during production. The evidence is all there that the important creative voices knew what they were doing.

And, since you're so stuck on marketing, maybe you should watch Lexi Alexander talk Punisher: War Zone on How Did This Get Made or Fatman on Batman, & then watch that wonderful film, which was infamously panned & marketed wrong & unsuccessful, until Patton Oswald helped the film gain its deserved cult following. Thank goodness Venom did work out at the box office so I can get more of it.

 

Eh, one single interview he gave the day before the movie came out doesn't erase the months of lead-up talking about how the movie was a dark, vicious, violent take on the character that was intended to be a serious action movie and push the limits of a PG-13 rating (after he initially talked about the movie being rated R, as well). So forgive me for missing that one instance of him talking about the comedy angle and thinking the movie was intended as something else entirely.

Anyway I'm glad there are people that liked the movie, honestly, because somebody had to. And of course I'm glad people whose work I enjoy got paid to make it (Hardy, Williams, Ahmed, Slate).

 

Not particularly on topic but I just watched Batman ‘66 this weekend. That movie will always hold a special place in my heart. I used to rent it regularly from my local library as a kid.

 

People were talking about the humor from the second trailer on:

Vicious New ‘Venom’ Trailer Injects Humor with Ultraviolence!

Having come off doing the horror comedy bit to perfection with Zombieland, it’s not surprising in the very least that Venom has a strong injection of dark humor, which also aligns perfectly with the source material. Venom is a one-liner machine, but the quips are delivered out of the direct nature of the symbiote; he’s fucking dead serious.

 

Where did you get any idea that it was going to be a "serious action movie" when the very interview you keep quoting has him talking about it being tonally like the Venom comics? And it's clear the script specifically has those moments in it.

Like, it's so clear obviously clear he knew what he was going for:

Yeah, he was always funny on the page, but over the course of editing it, we definitely leaned into those lines, just because they're so fun. But in the comics, I think, Venom's really funny as well. I think that he has always got great lines, and some of them even made their way into the movie. Like that line where he grabs Treece, and he says, "Eyes, lungs, pancreas. So many snacks, so little time." That's taken directly from the comics. So he's always had great one-liners, and I think he has this sarcastic attitude that we tried to embrace for the film.

That's what I was quoting above with the image:



Other quotes from different interviews:

And then with, um, the tone, I think it's unique as well. It's like, you know, a little darker, a little more horror. But also pretty funny and entertaining.

More:

Yeah, All of Me was a big reference point. We definitely took a lot of inspiration in the dynamics, as well as lots of other great ’80s buddy comedies – whether it’s Midnight Run, 48 Hours, which also takes place in San Francisco. But that idea of somebody being hijacked by another person and having to work together. And over the course of the journey, they come to terms and forge a friendship so that they might work together in the future. That was the arc of many a great classic ’80s buddy movies, including All of Me, and certainly was an inspiration for the relationship in this film.

More:

because the humor is something that we were excited to lean into. And although it’s not clear in all the marketing materials, the movie is just really fun. We made it for audiences. This is a movie that is just a fun ride and the goal was just to have a really entertaining fun film for audiences.

 

I said you guys win, I was wrong, there was at least one instance of him clearly mentioning the humor prior to the movie coming out. He snuck it in right there at the end, but it was there. And it excuses everything wrong with the script, the pacing, the supporting characters, the editing, the visual effects, the lighting, and Woody Harrelson's Carrot Top wig. You guys win.

 

The line "Eyes. Lungs, pancreas, so many snacks. So little time" is from the original Comic Con footage. Also in that interview:

“The symbiote bonds early on with Eddie and it’s kind of like ‘The Odd Couple,’ but instead of sharing an apartment, they share a body,” Fleischer explained. “The fun of the movie is the dynamic between them, with Eddie trying to rein in this basically unbridled id and find a balance with him. That theme of duality and trying to control your id — I think that’s what Tom and I responded to in terms of why this character is unique and special.”