Unraveling the Sexism of Emo’s Third Wave

Very good read along with Zoe Camp’s take today

 

been great seeing these highly respected, fantastic female writers putting their takes out there. they're viewpoints that we all need to see

 

From a linked MTV article in that pitchfork article

From 2003

Well Jesse never was less than an amazing song writer. Surely this current state is worse than that.

 

Well speaking of Senses Fail, wasn't the whole "Angela Baker and my obsession with Fire" a clever way for Buddy Neilson a tongue in cheek way to say he's not straight? He's a "flamer"? Or did I read way too much into this? I know Buddy isn't gay, but I always saw his lyrics as not entirely about women.

 

Idk where you’re going with this, but casual reminder, men can be gay and misogynistic. It’s actually pretty common.

I also don’t know why anyone would try to defend Senses Fail after reading the lyrics quoted in the article.

 

I never defended their lyrics, I only offer the idea that I don't automatically assume their lyrics are specifically always about women.

 

Both are excellent articles. Thanks for sharing!

 

Not that it makes it much better but the writer messed up the lyrics that she referenced. It's "so love me gently with a chainsaw". Not "So let me love thee". I agree with her point but she may want to check her article for accuracy before posting.

 

It's referenced/quoted differently different places:

Senses Fail - Tie Her Down Lyrics | SongMeanings
Senses Fail – Tie Her Down Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

And "thee" is what Google puts in their box/Google Play.

It's also what Apple Music/iTunes has as the official lyrics:



(Fucking disgusting song.)

 

If you're going to quote someone, you should probably do it from where the artist originally posted it especially if the lyrics are as heinous as those . The cd booklet is a good place to start instead of songmeanings.com.

 

Who has CDs around? Let alone that shitty one. If you're going to quote a song, using the lyrics on iTunes and Google Play is just fine. Especially when it's clearly in dispute online.

 

Just read the three articles about Brand New and they're all pretty demoralising. The total lack of women in that musical movement does look really weird in hindsight, which I never really considered at the time. Particularly as it seemed to have a big percentage female fanbase.

However, I've seen a few articles pick out Me Vs Madonna vs Elvis as being a 'date rape' song. It's dark and unpleasant, but if you're going to start considering all art autobiographical, things are going to get very troubling indeed. Can't agree with the sentiment there.

 

I won't defend those lyrics, but I'll defend Buddy specifically: he has shown extraordinary growth and owned up to the shitty things he used to write. I've been following him on social media for years now, and there's been a drastic change over time. Definitely someone who tries to speak out for women and minorities, and you can see the change reflected in recent Senses Fail lyrics.

 

nobody claims it as autobiographical, the meaning of a song can mean something problematic without it actually being something the artist has done

 

and this is definitely something important for all these artists that were problematic back in the early 2000s, hopefully more artists will take this lead and be more public about condemning their older stuff and proving they've learned and being active allies for a better environment

 

This argument is really stupid. The song is shitty but your point of being able to inaccurately quote someone because they don't have the access to the source material is just as stupid. Pick a lyric that you know is accurate. This scene has plenty gross lyrics for her to choose from. Her inaccurate quote just makes me think she was looking for misogynistic lyrics to use for her article. If I wrote a piece on the forums on this site and misquoted someone, I'd have tons of members, most likely you included, quoting and bashing me for doing just that

 

Second paragraph of the article suggests otherwise.

 

Do you have a picture of the lyric book?

There's multiple live videos that sound exactly like "take thee" to me. I don't think it's as black and white inaccurate as you are saying. That's what I'm saying. There are multiple good sources for this specific quote.

 

Of course, Lacey has denied that these lyrics are autobiographical, claiming that he was describing a nightmare he feared; only a monster would accept these thoughts as his own. Lacey still found them suitable to sing on Brand New’s breakout record, attaching his name to them forever.



she never denies his statement that they weren't autobiographical. she just says that even if they aren't it's still wary that he sang them in the first place

 

I'll do my best to find one for you. The quote is from the movie "Heathers" where they say so f*ck me gently with a chainsaw butfrom what I remember Vagrant told them to change it to "love". That's from the Alternative Press article from when they were on the cover

 

Cool. I still think the author's source for the lyrics (Google Play, iTunes, Shazaam, and LyricFind) are good ones and your "she may want to check her article for accuracy before posting" comment was over the top.

 

what's kind of ironic is Okay I Believe you is basically a satire of that scene and some of it's issues, specifically the male arrogance.

 

Maybe. I've been listening and grown with Senses Fail since I was 14 years old. From listening to the band and being obsessed with them growing up ,like the writers claim to be with Brand New, I knew that those lyrics were wrong. To me, it's unfair to use a band who've used their platform to support women and the lgbtq community while also losing fans doing so. Then on top of that to misquote the lyrics

 

They can do good things now and still have done horrific shit in the past, which is what this article is talking about -- that era of music. They don't get a pass, those albums happened. (They still play some of the fucked up gross songs live too.) Hell, they are making money for Pure Noise Records right now. The label that covered up for Front Porch Step and No Good News.