Discussion in 'Politics Forum' started by aranea, May 19, 2017.
Pfffft hahahahahahaha oh my God do it do it do it. Can you imagine if their existence forces an election before they even have the chance to line up any candidates
A great read.
Particularly enjoyed this suggestion towards the end:
I said this at the last election and I still believe it's a positive way forward for the progressive parties. Just talking. Doesn't have to be formal agreements. Just talk and let's work together to put in an end to the Conservative right wing politics that is destroying the country.
I know this thread focuses mainly on the UK, but have any of you heard about the yellow vest movement in France ? If you have, how is it perceived abroad ?
We have a reputation for going on strike / rioting all the time, but people have been destroying downtown Paris for 15 weeks straight now, and it's unlikely to stop anytime soon unless our government announces the return of the ISF (a yearly tax for the 1% richest) or raises the minimum wage to an unreasonable amount.
I live in Paris and every week, I see regular people, antifascists and fascists rioting together. The whole thing has turned into a populist far-right movement (with all its anti-press, anti-democracy, usual antisemitic and complotist bullshit).
Journalists are being hit by rioters live on camera, rioters and regular people alike get blinded by flashballs and lose limbs (!) by picking up police grenades, street medics are assaulted by the police...
It's such a shit show. It's only a matter of time before someone dies on live television.
I've been following it a bit over the last few months. It was reported quite a bit when it initially began in the UK but the coverage has definitely dwindled in recent weeks. The last I heard was the person who lost his hand by picking up the grenade I think.
Initially it seemed like a positive movement (from the reporting I saw it sounded like the protests began due to policies that were increasing the cost of living) but it's sad to hear it's been hijacked by the far-right. How has Macron handled it? Do you feel let down by the French government or do you blame the protestors? I'd be interested to hear more of your perspective, especially with you living in Paris.
As I understand it, the yellow vest movement was originally a response to:
- the cost of gas and more generally the cost of living being on the rise,
- Macron's recent decision of raising taxes for all permanent employees, from 7,5% of their monthly salaries to 9,2%, and the forced implementation of a system that automatically withdraws cash from our accounts at the end of each month - instead of paying our taxes how it suits us best (yearly/quarterly),
- Macron's decision to diminish taxes paid by the richest, with the goal of bringing home our wealthiest expats to create jobs. This has worked, but this BS trickle-down economy only benefits the upper middle class: rich owners coming back means more office jobs, but factories are still shutting down all across the country,
- Him trying to cover up the fact that his chief of staff, Alexandre Benalla, dressed up as a policeman and roughed up a young couple (with chokeholds and hits to the head) during a demonstration,
- The announcement of an upcoming reform of our retirement laws.
So it was really a case of everyone's cup being full: the movement originally had no leaders, no ties to political parties and no specific demands, it was all about expressing our general anger. Macron has been giving us the silent treatment for a while, he has only appeared once or twice since this began. Our ministers are denying all reports of police brutality, but I've seen police go nuts with my own eyes, and there are videos of people being shot in the face and subsequently blinded with flashballs (which is illegal) every week. This has made peaceful protesters a) stop protesting or b) buy ski masks and start rioting. I can guarantee you that every week, the fraction of calm, reasonable people gets smaller and smaller.
We elected Macron knowing that, in order to support a revival of our economy, there would have to be compromises. But we were led to believe that the lower middle-class wouldn't suffer for it. I'm doing alright but have to be significantly more careful than before with money. I can't imagine being working class in this country, so I can't blame the protestors per se.
But I can't fully back them: there's a large chunk of them, both from the far left and the far right, that are openly antisemitic (you can hear a lot of variants of "dirty jews, fuck off" in the streets and can read xenophobic messages on flags and yellow vests), homophobic, etc. They also think anyone who manages to get by supports the president and his reforms.
My antifa contacts are knowingly walking with the far-right every week, because they don't want to surrender the movement to them. This has led to open confrontations in the streets, while the police looks on and does nothing.
My personal take on this is that thing will not get better and that Macron will eventually have to leave, in a historic turn for the country. We will then either vote in Marine Le Pen (far right, "Rassemblement National") or Jean-Luc Mélenchon (far left, "La France Insoumise" - "France Unsubmitted... jesus), who are now discretly flirting with each other and both want to restore a national currency, leave the EU (which in our case would be a disaster), write laws towards national preference in all possible sectors, etc. All major companies based in Paris will flee to Germany.
TL;DR: I think we're fucked even worse than Brazil, Italy or Greece.
I just don't.......why now? If you were going to do this why did you pretend you weren't for 2 and a half years? Have the defectors shook them that bad, or are they that scared of a Tory Brexit?
I haven't seen any recent polling on general support for a second ref, has there been any significant shift in favour of it?
Don't think so, people would be marching with those polls results on signs if that was the case. It also has no chance of passing a parliament vote as I understand
Seymour has never been wrong
I wish politicians would actually listen to this kind of sense.
where's that second referendum @ smh
Starting to find it funny listening to people defending brexit at this point. It's likely watching someone wedgie themselves.
Can anyone explain the following to me:
The UK can't pass the withdrawal agreement due to the backstop which many people don't like but the EU are insisting they need the backstop to protect the Ireland and avoid a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. That makes sense.
Where I'm getting confused: yesterday the EU made a no deal situation more likely by saying they will only grant an extension if there is a positive vote in the House of Commons. If there's a no deal situation next week there will automatically be a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Why won't they change the backstop due to the border but are seemingly choosing No Deal which creates a border?
What am I missing?! This is the only thing I don't get about the stance the EU took yesterday and no one seems to have mentioned it... it must be something simple but I can't work it out and no one else I've asked has explained it to me!
Article 13 went through
Makes me wonder whether there any good arguments for scrapping the role of prime minister all together - are there any countries that get by without a single figurehead, and could it even work?