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UK and Europe World • Page 46

Discussion in 'Politics Forum' started by aranea, May 19, 2017.

  1. aranea

    Trusted Prestigious

     
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  2. aranea

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  3. Wharf Rat

    I know a little something you won't ever know Prestigious

     
  4. awakeohsleeper

    I do not exist.

  5. Wharf Rat

    I know a little something you won't ever know Prestigious

    I assume so, don't know why else it'd be happening now
     
  6. Philll

    Trusted

    LOL

    Norfolk MP organises 'Tory Glastonbury' to boost grassroots support

    Norfolk MP organises 'Tory Glastonbury' to boost grassroots support

    This is my conservative MP attempting to start a Corbyn-esque populist movement with an invite-only festival for no more than 200 people in a secret location. Whoever said the Tories were out of touch?
     
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  7. MexicanGuitars

    Chorus’ Expert on OTIP Track #8 Supporter

  8. awakeohsleeper

    I do not exist.

  9. DarkHotline

    Proud To Bathe With A Rag On A Stick Prestigious

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  10. awakeohsleeper

    I do not exist.

    Has anyone got any thoughts on this story about Sarah Champion resigning from Corbyn's front bench? Corbyn has said that Labour wouldn't "blame any particular group or demonise any particular group". The article was irresponsible in the way it talked about the situation.

    I work in digital marketing and one of clients is based in Rotherham. I have been constantly surprised and appalled at the level of racism on Twitter due to this grooming scandal. Looking through Tweets today most are expressing anger that people can't say what they consider to be the truth about the situation.

    Couple of examples:




    I guess it would be interesting to hear what people think. My main question is how do we acknowledge the pain, anger and perceived lack of justice on the ground in Rotherham, but avoid the lingering and destructive racism that has developed (ie. saying things like 'all Pakistani Muslims are involved in this')? How do you avoid more division? How do you acknowledge grievances and find the truth? How is reconciliation achieved in a situation like this? What role does the mainstream political establishment need to play in this? Is it possible that if these feelings are not addressed they will spiral into similar white nationalist sentiments that we have seen physically manifest in the US since the election of Trump?

    Tough questions.

    As I said, I'm often shocked by the vitriolic racism. It's awful, makes me feel sick and I often end up reporting a whole host of tweets. There's not much else I can do in my job as I'm working for a client, but I do want to see a society that comes together and celebrates diversity particularly after tragedies like this. At the moment, it feels very far from that.
     
  11. MexicanGuitars

    Chorus’ Expert on OTIP Track #8 Supporter

    Hungary PM Viktor Orban aims to militarize the school system | Europe | DW | 14.08.2017

    "Orban has indeed been pushing for military expansion in Hungary and for a general increase of military readiness through calls for more "patriotic physical education" ideals in schools. Until now, he has ruled out the reinstatement of compulsory military service, but last autumn he proposed the creation of volunteer units in all 197 Hungarian counties, in what is envisioned as a type of national guard with some 20,000 soldiers. The move would double the size of Hungary's military.

    The Hungarian government had already been mulling the introduction of shooting lessons for students and building gun ranges at schools several months prior to Orban's announcement. Since 2005, the Ministry of Defense has been offering volunteer military training courses as part of its "Soldier School" program. After the election victory of Orban and his Fidesz party in the spring of 2010, the program was massively expanded. Hungary's law enforcement authorities are now encouraging older students to train with a newly-created border police unit to patrol the country's southern border for illegal immigrants."
     
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  12. awakeohsleeper

    I do not exist.

    I know no one responded to this but interesting to see Sajid Javid (Conservative minister) Tweet this:

     
  13. Letterbomb31

    Trusted Prestigious

    This thread is good:
     
  14. awakeohsleeper

    I do not exist.

    Yep, good stuff, thanks for sharing. I think i said a similar thing in my original post. It's naive to write for The Sun about this topic and then to generalise rather than talk specifically about the situation in Rotherham.
     
  15. Letterbomb31

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  16. Philll

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  17. Wharf Rat

    I know a little something you won't ever know Prestigious

    Theresa and friends are the bad guys in Happy Valley who kidnap the girl and Jezza is Sarah Lancashire
     
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  18. OdranWaldo

    Brendan Rodgers Young Team Prestigious

    i was just about to make a broadchurch joke ffs
     
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  19. Wharf Rat

    I know a little something you won't ever know Prestigious

    Wow I just found the subsection of people who think anti-Semitism in labour is literally all Corbyn's fault and there was none of it before Corbyn


    I'm sure these are the same folks worried about 'trotskyist entryism'
     
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  20. awakeohsleeper

    I do not exist.

    It's certainly interesting. Would you say his reaction to it during his leadership has been good enough? That might be where the problem is. In my memory it hasn't been something that came to light under leaders such as Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Ed Milliband even though it's been a problem under the surface.
     
  21. Wharf Rat

    I know a little something you won't ever know Prestigious

    I can't say, I'm not in the UK and don't think I've seen enough to say either way. But the idea that there was no antisemitism problem before Corbyn but there is now rings false, though for the same reasons I can't prove it. I do know for a fact antisemitism is something that is leveled as an accusation against anyone who says anything negative about Israel, or who stands in solidarity with Palestinians. My guess is that the reason you don't hear about it under centrist labour leaders is because it can't be combined with those political positions and weaponized in that way. Especially since the loudest voices tend to be...centrist labour folks.
     
  22. awakeohsleeper

    I do not exist.

    Sorry, I think I naively assumed you would be in the UK!

    One thing I would say is that the examples that have occurred during Corbyn's leadership haven't been to do with just saying negative things about Israel - they've been explicitly anti-semitic. The theory in some places is that Corbyn's leadership has empowered this. Hard to say if that's true objectively.

    Did you hear about the inquiry about anti-semitism in the Labour Party? It found that there the Labour Party wasn't "overrun" by antisemitism but that there was "a minority hateful or ignorant attitudes". There's a few Labour MPs that have criticised that ongoing prevailing minority that exists in the party but have felt that Corbyn has been slow to react to the recent controversies. I think he actually said that "the Labour Party doesn't have a problem with anti-semitism" (in reference to the report, perhaps, but kind of an own goal statement that will always be criticised). His other own goal was giving Shami Chakrabarti a peerage directly after this supposedly 'independent' inquiry. Again, I don't want to doubt Chakrabarti's integrity but it certainly left him open to criticism on this issue.

    Oh also worth noting Ed Milliband was the first Labour Party leader of a Jewish background. I wouldn't say he was a centrist either. In my opinion he actually had ideas akin to Corbyn but didn't push ahead with them and was constrained by the remnants of New Labour.
     
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  23. Wharf Rat

    I know a little something you won't ever know Prestigious

    Those are all perfectly valid criticisms and things that should be addressed or expressed better, for sure. I'm not denying or downplaying any of that, but I haven't seen what makes this a uniquely Corbyn problem. Even if an argument could be made that he is particularly bad in this area what I was reading earlier was literally "it wasn't there before Corbyn." I am wary of this kind of weaponization of antisemitism against left-wing figures specifically or especially, because regardless of the individual incidents we should be alert to the ways in which anti-semitism is used against those in Palestinian solidarity. Not every incident will be directly related to that issue but when issues in a party which ranges from Blair to Corbyn are only or especially used against the left wing which stands in solidarity with Palestinians we have to note where they are coming from (was this an issue while Blair was in power? If so, how was it handled? How did Corbyn's contemporary critics personally respond at the time? Does the inquiry answer any of these questions?) and with what underlying purpose. I am wary of accusations of antisemitism from politicians who also equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism, or who go on about 'trotskyite entryists,' because these things are/very easily can be antisemitism in themselves, respectively. I do not trust their intentions much more than I would trust such accusations from a tory who complains about "gypsy travellers" or expresses anti-irish sectarianism on twitter. If politicians are serious about combating antisemitism they should begin with ending their own antisemitism and engaging in a party process for such that doesn't involve attacking those in solidarity with Palestinians just for their solidarity. It's impossible to weed out real antisemitism if you are overly concerned with these people.

    Now I do want to say that as I understand it so called 'vulgar' antisemitism is much more prevalent in the UK than in the US, so it is hard for me to write on this without a deeper knowledge of that, but I try to keep this in mind while thinking about this.

    Also, I apologize to Ed Milliband. I had misinterpreted some memes.
     
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