Tool Band • Page 24

I’m a little confused.

Do people in here actually think an accusation from an anonymous twitter account actually will ruin someone’s career?

Where is one example of that ever happening?

This man doesn’t need you to rush to his defense.

 

fuckin exactly

 

If you wanna reserve judgment on an anonymous account, whatever, but history shows that where there’s smoke, there’s fire

 

Congratulations on winning the gold in mental gymnastics I guess

 

The point here is that it was a fake rape allegation. It does happen Like soemone said above, if all it takes is an anonymous Twitter story to ruin a man's reputation then I have ten minutes and some fake Twitter accounts to take down every single band and artist you like. THIS IS NOT ME SYMPATHIZING WITH AN ABUSER OR DISCREDITING A VICTIM. This is me saying that I think the standard of guilt should be higher than one anonymous report on a social media platform where anyone can do it.

 

Dude Patrick Kane WON THE MVP the year after, has a Gatorade commercial, and hockey outlets were tripping over themselves to peddle redemption narratives. He’s doing fine

 

So 4chan scum, Milo disciples, and their ilk will do "swattings" that end in random gamers' fatalities just for the lulz -- but their moral compass is too refined for fabricated accusations? Accusations which could be just for the lulz, or targeted at a particular public figure for some reason, or designed to undermine the credibility of real accusations?

As I said before: I'll admit it's somewhat surprising that this kind of thing hasn't happened a lot this far into the metoo movement, but it's almost inevitable that it will happen occasionally.

 

The standard for guilt is proof beyond a resonable doubt in a court of law after being afforded your constitutionally mandated due process.


The standard for thinking someone is a fucking scumbag unworthy of your support is, frankly, whatever you are comfortable with given what we know about modern society.

No one is convicting this guy of a crime and sentencing him to prison. They are choosing to not support his band anymore.

 

My point wasn't that he is/isn't doing fine. My point is that sometimes there are false accusations. And sometimes that person even goes to the police. So all I'm saying, again, is that I feel most comfortable in this case waiting to see what happens. Usually where there's smoke there's fire and I think there definitely could be something here. I really don't think anyone in this thread is writing this off as no big deal.

 

It’s also inevitable that a person will get struck by lightning walking outside, is that going to stop you from leaving your home?

 

False accusations have occurred, sure! They’re also exceedingly rare and the narrative of one getting “taken down/having their life ruined” is dramatically overblown.

 

It's starting to happen to some degree already, it's just relatively easy to pick out what the fakes are:

'Stranger Things' Millie Bobby Brown Exits Twitter After Homophobic Meme

Because the trolls are very bad at it. I understand the argument that this "could" happen, but when you read that Twitter account do you get the feeling that's what this is? Some 4Chan neckbeard? I don't.

 

They're definitely rare and I agree where there's smoke there's usually fire. But, Patrick Kane is a good example. Known as a party boy, seems like kind of a dink. As soon as the rape accusation came out, I was devastated as a fan of him as a hockey player. I remember saying how sad it was and how we all saw it coming. Then, it turns out, he was innocent. I think all of us are just saying that there isn't enough evidence here. And I'm not talking "prove it in court" evidence because that will never happen to Jesse Lacey. I'm talking something more than one anonymous source is all.

 

Just as an observer of what is going in this thread, I understand why people are choosing either sides of this situation, from what we know right now, and the reasonings for disagreeing, but what’s the reason for becoming so hostile when someone has a differing perspective? People might say that it’s because that way of thinking is destructive or harmful, but is that really a good excuse not to talk about issues in a constructive manner? I mean, I don’t find it absurdly irrational that given what we know right now (and don’t know), that people may be skeptical of the claim. Nor do I feel that people who immediately believe the anonymous source, especially based on the pattern we’ve seen over and over to be overreacting by rushing to judgement. People should be allowed to speak their mind and those who disagree have every right to counter argue and debate, but we’ve come to a point where civil debate has been replaced by knee jerk emotional reactions (which I myself have been guilty of), name calling, blocking, and bashing.

 

Lyrics to new Tool song released:

 

I'm sorry, but when the repeated response is "We don't know that this is a victim, or even a woman" I'm out. I don't have room for that kind of toxic bullshit in my life.

 

...do we know if this is a victim or even a woman, though?

 

Again, not discrediting if it is a victim. But we literally don't know. We just don't. If this is true I really hope this person will go to a journalist or the police anonymously to get their story out.

 

We do know, though, because they FUCKING TOLD US.

 

Hmm yes I really hope they go to the police who have a great track record for treating abuse victims with due respect

 

I used to play in the NFL. And now you know, because I told you!

 

Exactly. I don’t think anyone who’s personally waiting for more to come out is a bad person. I know this on its own wouldn’t destroy Maynard’s career, but as far as my own *personal* support I’m waiting to see if there’s more that comes out. I don’t judge anyone who immediately stops supporting him as “rushing to judgment”, I don’t think that’s the case and I really don’t think anyone here is being “toxic”. This is kind of what I’ve talked about before with how the bar for what’s considered “toxic” keeps getting moved higher and higher, AKA what’s an “acceptable” opinion keeps getting narrowed. This is certainly something that can be discussed calmly.

 

Thank you for eloquently saying what I'm trying to say. The bold part is all I wanted to convey. I know I'm probably coming across as a complete ass right now and I really don't want to offend anyone so I'll step away from this thread for a bit. I'm sorry if I seem insensitive towards victims anywhere. There are two people in my life who have been victims of sexual assault and it's something I, like most of us, feel strongly about.

I support anyone strong enough to tell their story, and if this is truly someone telling their story than I will support this person and disown anything Maynard has touched from my life. I think I've said this 30 times in this thread, but all I want to say is that before I make a personal judgement I want to wait to see what develops. If you don't want to wait, I can totally respect that too.

 

Quite frankly if that Twitter thread is true in saying that he did this in “every city” (or near that)... I think we’ll find more accusations come out relatively soon. In which case this whole discussion is moot.

 

I think it's moot anyway. No one's gaining anything from it.

Maynard's a prick. He may or may not be a rapist, but he's definitely used women for his own self-validation - he's even admitted that before. It's clear that there was some pretty grimy, horrible stuff that took place on those tours. Whether he did anything illegal, I don't know. I'm not going to assume that he did. I can hold that opinion without dismissing allegations either. Wish more people could do that; mainly the Tool subreddit. Haven't even dared gone on there since Maynard's tweet.