I legitimately enjoy your contributions to this website. I just noticed you’ve been kinda confrontational and wanting to debate lately. I might be way off and not being constructive in my assessment and hope you’re alright.
Well, thanks, I like your contributions as well. I dunno, I don't really think I'm being any different than usual and I don't think I'm being overly aggressive or rude. Trying not to be anyway. It's how it is, right? You read something that rubs you a certain kind of way and you feel the need to respond. It's not out of malice or even any need to win an argument or anything dumb; it's just simply reactive. I also want to clarify that I at no point thought Dustin was not aware of the Pistols and who they were; I think I'm being misunderstood in that regard.
I do think there's an interesting conversation to be had here about the canon and the utility of new lists to challenge the conventional wisdom created by the old lists. Saying "X classic album sucks, actually" is often taken as a provocation, but I kind of prefer it to "This album was influential, so it therefore has to be included every time someone makes a list." An album can be important and influential and still flawed or problematic, and therefore maybe not worthy of continued lionization as the years wear on. I'll be interested to see how much lists like this are willing to throw out the old canon as we get further and further from some of those quote-unquote foundational albums. I found that Apple Music list from a couple years ago particularly fascinating in this regard, in how it staked its claim by putting a whole bunch of recent albums in the top 100.
This was well said, and contrary to how things seem, I don't disagree. There is a certain headcanon that leaving foundational works off a list like this is disrespectful of the work, but I think reverence can still be shown while also conceding that things have gotten better over time. Being general here because I think this works with any form of media, not just music.
What post 2010 albums would make your hypothetical best punk albums ever list? You can be flexible on the genre labels. For me; Transgender Dysphoria Blues After the Party On the Impossible Past Celebration Rock Brave Faces Everyone Camp Cope’s Self Titled record Vacation by BTMI We Live Here by Bob Vylan Ultra Mono by Idles
A lot of y'alls picks are things I'd include. Jeff Rosenstock - No Dream as well. Maybe Emperor X - Western Teleport, though that leans a bit heavier on the "folk" side but yeah, loose genre. The list including Soul Glo was a great call.
One of those things where I'm not always sure if an album didn't make it because they didn't consider it "punk" or it didn't make it based on merit, but some of mine off the top of my head: Titus Andronicus - The Monitor Diet Cig - Swear I’m Good At This Japandroids - Celebration Rock and Near to the Wild Heart of Life Ezra Furman - Perpetual Motion People Beach Slang - The Things We Do To Find People Who Feel Like Us Jeff Rosenstock - WORRY. Bash & Pop - Anything Could Happen It's 2008, but also I'm a little surprised it's not on the list proper. Must be a categorization thing, right?
I do think Gaslight is a band that people always had a tough time categorizing. That's probably true of a few of these bands people are bringing up here.
I'm mixed on this. I'm pretty adamant about the need to expand the canon. But exactly that: expand, not replace. I don't think all art's goal should be to "age well". Some art is great or important specifically because of how it encapsulates or influenced its moment.
Apropos of nothing, I'm still baffled that Running with the Hurricane isn't their signature album. It's colossal.
Yeah, I definitely see both sides of this one. Every new generation gets their shot at reshaping the canon, and I don't think anyone is obligated to continue to hold up art that doesn't speak to them. There's something to be said for the stuff that continues to resonate with new generations versus the stuff that doesn't. But I also agree that we shouldn't just forget the deeper history of the medium. It's a challenge now with any "all time" list: how can you represent all these different eras without a big portion of the list just looking like a reshuffled deck of cards from past lists?
Yeah the problem is inherent to things like ranked top 100 lists, as opposed to say "20 great 80s funk albums you might not know", etc. We're trying to fit a sprawling medium into clothes that are too small for it.
Yeah, at this point, you almost have to add qualifiers to narrow down your lists. That New York Times list of greatest living American songwriters, for instance, was more interesting to me than if they'd tried just a "greatest songwriters of all time" list.
Right. Cause invariably do you wrestle with Gershwin and Kern and Johnny Mercer? Do you go back to Stephen Foster? It's such a broad canvas that any "definitive" list is always just a starter kit at best.
I'm glad the conversation started by us two Neanderthals gave way to a better discussion between two far more eloquent people.
Even year-end lists at this point feel focused on a very small section of the musical map. To attempt anything with "all time" in the title is daunting to the point of insanity. That said, I do think it will be interesting going forward to see what lifts out of the canon, what stays put, what moves around, and what breaks in. that Apple Music list from 2024 was borderline unhinged, but it definitely sticks in my mind more than most of these for how blatantly it felt like a younger generation saying "Our music is just as good as yours."