Taylor Swift - The Tortured Poets Department (April 19, 2024) Album • Page 114

I feel like y'all are gaslighting me into pretending this album wasn't successful and wildly popular and discussed everywhere.

 

I don't know why she waited so long to make Broken Heart a single but hopefully it's successful it's a great song, I do kinda wish she had spread out the whole double album thing a bit because 30 songs is too many

 

I know it's not a common mindset, but I still just think of the album as the first disc and the rest is the deluxe edition

 

at minimum, i don't think people discuss it anymore unless a) you're a diehard fan, or b) you're discussing its longevity on the charts (in relation to other new releases)

 

as it should be

 

In the past 90 days Billie's album went above once ... the day of release..



Last month:



Continued domination

 

I mean I am only going by what I see online and what I am hearing from people IRL so the search metrics probably do prove me wrong haha

 

I just feel like there's been so, so, so much more social media chatter, podcast talk, radio activity, general buzz, etc. this summer for Chappell, Sabrina, Charli, and Kendrick/Drake than for this album. And I know it came out in April, but coming after 2023, when it seemed like Taylor was the only thing I heard about for the entire summer, it's notable.

 

This is a bit unrelated but since we are talking 2024 releases, I thought Beyonce and Ariana's albums would be bigger deals this year, but maybe it's because Beyonce does like no promo and Ariana has been focused on Wicked

 

If that were true you'd think you'd see it in search trends, youtube trends, or google news trends ... but ... that's not what the data says.

 

Like, by any cross metric, from the basic to the very specific ... it's not really even close.



Worldwide by album:

 

I would assert it’s because beyonces album is garbage. Can’t come up with a reason for Ariana though…

Morgan wallen and Zach Bryan are what I hear most about socially. No surprises there.

 

It also helps to have marketing that keeps releasing some new version of it seemingly every other week to keep dominating the discussion.

its all very calculated to keep it in the loop and discussed whenever something else begins to spring up in popularity.

 

Why are we pulling up data to compare Taylor Swift's numbers to other artists of course she's stomping everyone, she's the biggest artist on the planet. Some people might be saying they don't hear as much positive clamor for this one as her other more recent albums but I don't think anyone's saying she isn't by far the biggest selling artist and will continue to be lol

 

The tour itself is also overseas right now. Creates a smidge of distance in the popular discourse.

 

I can't decide if I do or do not want to meet the sort of person that is doing a Google search for Taylor Swift

 

agreed. Ariana’s also obviously in the phase of her career where she doesn’t need to drive sales with singles but I do think outside of the first one, the choices have been absolutely bizarre and I have to imagine that still plays a role.

as for the Taylor vs others graphs, they’re pretty cool to see but as others have alluded to, and as people who don’t look at metrics and just develop impressions by what we see on social media, I think it’s still very fair to say this album just doesn’t feel as “big” or as much of a cultural touch point as it’s predecessors. Which isn’t a bad thing but it’s also not a surprise. They can be both wildly successful *and* not appear as the soundtrack to as many reels as others. I don’t think those graphs capture the more subtle ways music is discussed or appears our lives. I’ve seen way more memeing of the Charlie xcx album art and reels of Sabrina’s nonsense outros than I ever saw of any singular part of the eras tour or the fortnight music video.

 

I've seen way more Chappell than Taylor but maybe that's because I'm on lesbian tiktok...

 

How is it not 'big' or a 'cultural touch point' when it was #1 for 12 weeks in a row? What are you all on?

 

Ok, I'll admit that a lot of this is a perception or "vibes" thing. Of course Taylor is still dwarfing everyone else by most metrics; she's the Walmart of music, she's bigger than everyone. But what I'm saying is that, if you look at the numbers and the records for this album, it's her biggest release ever. That's what history will flatten this into, because the numbers remain and the "vibes" don't, really. Huge first-day streaming numbers; her biggest opening week ever; her longest consecutive streak at number 1. Those aren't the bullshit "Most streams ever on a Thursday for a song that starts with 'F' and features Post Malone" records that we make fun of in this thread, those are big records in categories where it makes sense to track records.

But can anyone in this thread honestly say this album feels bigger than Fearless, or 1989, or folklore, or Midnights? Those albums (and honestly, most other Taylor records) felt earthshaking. Comparatively, this one just doesn't seem to be measuring up, even among the Swifties I know. And people said this about Midnights, too, actually: When that album won the Grammy, there was some outcry on these forums because people felt like it wasn't actually that pervasive as an album, but won because Taylor had a massive year. But, like, at least Midnights had a world-beating hit single that was legitimately inescapable and stuck around forever. I don't feel like any song from this album has entered the cultural bloodstream in a similar way, or in the way that the lingering hits of this moment ("Espresso," "Not Like Us," "Good Luck Babe," etc.) have.

I guess my question is: Shouldn't Taylor Swift's biggest album ever feel like Taylor Swift's biggest album ever?

 

i guess one could argue that it's all subjective at the end of the day, and there are probably fans who really do feel like this is biggest album ever from a cultural standpoint. and streaming has clearly changed the way that albums remain in the zeitgeist. but given how many releases she's pumped out in the past several years - plus a pretty mixed reception to it from critics and long-time fans - it just doesn't feel like something people are discussing the way they used to. maybe we're all just well-insulated and our perspective on this is primarily shaped by our social circles, but despite chart success, the discussion and buzz about this album feels like it's faded in a way that it hasn't for her other albums.

 

Both myself and Craig acknowledged its big and that the numbers back it up (though, as is discussed as nauseum every day, she’s doing a lot of work to keep them up.) I specifically said it just doesn’t “feel” as big, or to borrow’s Craig’s word, pervasive, as its predecessors -we’re not disputing the numbers or what they mean. we’re just saying the numbers and the “vibes” don’t perfectly correlate. Which is a common thing anyway and we’re just talking about it more because it’s Taylor, but it’s still a very meaningful difference, albeit not a measurable one.

I’m surprised it doesn’t go without saying tbh because of all the examples we already gave. Again, not perfect, but the more casual listeners in my life definitely don’t know fortnight as well as they did shake it off or lavender haze. I don’t “”””feel””” like I hear fortnight every other song on the radio like I did anti hero. There isn’t the same level of memes and running conversations about this era like there were for the “sexy baby” line or the anti hero music video. No ice spice remix (yet) to ignite “which version is better” conversations.

The album was released, it sold really well, we talk about other release versions, and that’s just sorta been the whole story.

 

I think it’s the combo of two things:

1) no giant single, that still matters a lot for public consciousness
2) people are tired of her (a little) and the things that feel everywhere are, if not legitimately newer, feel newer and more exciting

The “no one goes there anymore, it’s too crowded” phenomenon.

bonus: april was absolutely forever ago as far as the speed at which big news entertainment or otherwise happens these days

 

Taylor Swift is an undeniably massive figure in music. When they count merch sales at UMG, they have a “with Taylor” and “without Taylor” forecast. She is so much bigger than the next biggest artist. With that said, I don’t think the proportion of Google searches for Taylor Swift/TTPD vs Charli XCX/Brat is an accurate measure of social media discourse around their albums this summer.

 

Avatar and James Cameron are often made fun of for being the biggest movies ever and having “no cultural footprint”. I disagree, those movies have a cultural influence, but the discourse seems pretty insular. It’s mostly Avatar fans and some film twitter personalities who really love Avatar, normal people check the movies out and either like them or don’t and move on. I think that vibe is feels like where TTPD and Taylor Swift are this year. Massive numbers and continued dominance as the biggest musical act in the world, but Sabrina Carpenter and Chappell Roan are killing on tik tok the way Anti Hero did before and no tortured poets song really has done, and the Kendrick and Charli summers were far more impactful cultural moments. The Democratic nominee for president is campaigning on brat memes.

Part of that is the kinds of albums they are though. Sabrina Carpenter and Chappell Roan are new and upbeat pop music. brat is extremely lively and sonically fun and adventurous, which is perfect for the summer. Tortured Poets Department is mostly sparse and quiet and sad (and too long). I also think the album can get so specifically self-referential that it crosses a line to where it’s mostly Taylor Swift fans (casual or die hard) that have the time/energy/care to talk about it and continue its shelf life, and non-Taylor Swift fans (and some casual Swift fans) seem pretty over it.