Taylor Swift - Lover (August 23, 2019) Album • Page 30

Shes the one saying she put Easter eggs in every song and image for the past few months asking her fans to speculate and guess what they could be.

 

Thank you to anyone who I don’t regularly converse with on here for taking the time to answer questions on these topics so thoroughly. This community has educated me on many different things and the points you all make give me different views of perspective I wouldn’t ever think of on my own for obvious reasons. I came from a conservative catholic family that I never shared the same views with, and despite living my life as my own and very much the opposite of what my parents wanted, there is so much I am still ignorant to from simply not having the experiences in my youth as I am having in my twenties.

 

Taylor Swift Inspires Teen To Come Out As Straight Woman Needing To Be At Center Of Gay Rights Narrative

pfffff

 

That reads like the hard times more than the onion, unfortunately

 

Sigh. I just think this is really lazy, even for satire.

Someone like Taylor doing a song like this meant SO MUCH to queer Swifties (and has had actual tangible impact on LGBTQ organizations and maybe even our LAWMAKERS so) and I am just over the way it gets glossed over in general. Makes it hard for me to even chuckle the way I might otherwise.

 

Yeah, that Onion article sucks.

 

Lmao same

 

I personally think Macklemore’s “Same Love” is probably a good comparison point for this (since it was already mentioned)... the potential is there for some positive impact, but like “Same Love” it feels like the artist is still the center of attention and not the message.

 

I enjoy reading the discourse in here. It's nice to read conversations that aren't just defensive Stan wars.

I will say in regards to Taylor never being able to win... She literally wins all the time. She has never lost. She always comes out on top, no matter what she does and says. Scandals or negative pr that would harm other artists just bounce off her like she's Teflon. She's truly never had a flop era no matter what anti's hope for. No matter how much hate she gets, the love always outweighs. She's able to spin everything into a victory. Which isn't bad... But like sis would legit meltdown if she ever actually lost at anything. Like sure she's divisive but so is every popstar on top. No popstar will ever "win" at the general public discourse because they're polarizing and controversial figures and sexism exists and it's literally impossible to be loved and agreed with by everyone (even for Keanu Reeves!!!).

Idk. I guess it's just meh for me to see a (to the publics knowledge) born wealthy, cis, straight, extremely privileged white woman who has +1 million album debuts and record breaking tours and legions of dedicated fans and tons of positive press and Grammys as anything other than winning... Like all the time.

 

Also I'm gonna admit idk what Teflon is but I hear ppl say that a lot. I assume it's bouncy??

 

Wow thanks Google it's so clear now:

Polytetrafluoroethylene is a synthetic fluoropolymer of tetrafluoroethylene that has numerous applications. The best-known brand name of PTFE-based formulas is Teflon by Chemours. Chemours is a spin-off of DuPont, which originally discovered the compound in 1938.

 

I’ve been lurking in the thread to see if the back-and-forth helps me crystallize my discomfort with the song, and I think this is where I’ve landed: The song would have been much less jarring had it contained itself to decrying online bullying and shitposting of various stripes. Invoking the *physical* dangers faced by the LGBTQ community in the middle of carping about Twitter haters and pop culture vultures, however, feels trivializing, since it implies these problems are interchangeably threatening and equally capable of being shaken off. When you play with such invidious topics, language choice matters, and I just don’t believe that was properly thought through in this case.

 

Now we're getting to the important things in this thread!

 

It's what I'm here for!

Ordinarily when you make glue, first you need to thermoset your resin and then, after it cools, you have to mix in an epoxide, which is really just a fancy-schmancy name for any simple oxygenated adhesive, right? And then I thought maybe, just maybe, you could raise the viscosity by adding a complex glucose derivative during the emulsification process

 

part of me wonders if Taylor equates social media attacks with the actual hardship of the lgbtq community because as someone of her stature death threats etc have to be a constant stream of incoming so while we may not view those things (rightfully so) as equating types of danger, maybe for those far more prominent (and in my case, male vs female as well) there is a more insidious, expensive side.

 

Not any point or counterpoint but: I feel like a lot of the song is about the people who stand outside of her shows with megaphones calling everyone going in sluts and heathens.

 

I don't think anyone in here would disagree with you. I know when I say "she can't win" I'm literally talking about the public discourse and reception of her actions... not her life in general. That would be absurd.

Is it important? Is it small potatoes? For her actual life, sure. But i honestly think the people it most impacts ARE her more marginalized fans. That's why it matters. Also, misogyny, etc. Plus, the hypocrisy surrounding these convos just grinds my gears.

 

Idk I guess I feel like nobody ever wins in that sense. Idk maybe im just sensitive to the term. It's something I used to say about myself in my job and just had to stop because it wasn't productive. I don't think she can "win" given how long she took to speak out, and given how there seems to be a lot more backlash towards the capitalistic opportunism of pride in recent years. I mean this isn't my wheelhouse to speak on if we're talking her stance on the lgbtq community. I think for some ppl it's too little too late and they're cynical which I get, and for others they feel represented and happy which I get. I agree in the sense that she'll never win over those losers who will hate regardless, but like eh haters gonna hate hate hate. I do appreciate that a lot of the discourse seems meaningful and not just ATTACK. At least in the circles I've read there's a lot of interesting responses from a wide variety of ppl

Also sry if this comment makes no sense I'm at a thing and don't have time to review the last few pages to remember what specifically was all being said oop

 

In case anyone wanted a big post abt forms of activism and monetary donations Taylor has made:

 

Not that this is your stance but I guess I don't get "being cynical" about when someone feels comfortable and safe enough to come out - there's no window in which someone is required to do this. As I have said before, I didn't discover my queerness until what many would consider late in life - early 20's. And that was just me first *realizing* it. I'm 30 now and literally just starting to *understand* it and what it means for my life. The choice to come out is entirely personal and predicated on a number of different circumstances, not the least of which could be personal safety. Unless someone is clearly using their platform to advance a personal agenda (monetary or otherwise) vis a vis their queerness, I really can't condone attacking someone for the time in which it might have taken them to make a choice both very difficult and very personal.

I'm not active on Taylor stan Twitter or anything so maybe I am missing some context but if that's an opinion that's circulating it really rubs me the wrong way.

 

It is very much an opinion that's circulating (not via Kiana, but in general) and that's why I'm not here for it and why I always mouth off about why people need to let Taylor live - because of the tangential damage it can do to people witnessing the damn discourse. So much of the critique has been so damn problematic (overused as that word is) and toxic and it's like y'all would be less harmful and more honest if you just said "I don't care, I just hate Taylor Swift" instead of trying to justify it with some righteous reason. You're allowed to just dislike people.

Of course, some folks DO just say that and some folks have super valid reasons to dislike things like this song, etc. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

 

That's incredibly disheartening to hear. The real people suffering are the fans in marginalized communities like you've said, and I highly doubt all these Twitter hot takes and think pieces are considering the damage they're doing to them when they stoke a narrative like that.

Not to mention biphobia is a huge issue, even in the lgbtq+ community, so along with how sexism murks the waters of this conversation, I wouldn't be surprised if that is part of it when I see people claiming she's only dated men/written about men and so that is conclusive proof that this is all queerbaiting.

 

I'm surprised I missed the Taylor maybe being bi discourse considering how online I have, Kaylor shipping aside but shipping doesn't necessarily mean anything

 

Oh I don't mean anyone coming out. Ultimately I got no issue with it myself but I've read some fairly interesting takes from ppl who are skeptical of mega popstars coming into certain spaces. As far as I know she is straight and hasn't or isn't coming out at this time so I got no comment on the speculation of her sexuality

 

My thing is even if she ends up being straight, the discourse is harmful to people struggling to come out. I just wish people in the community would be more cognizant of that in the way they approach their critiques.

edit: (and that people outside the community would opt out of commenting more. this is more about other networks, not this site.)