Swans - The Glowing Man (June 17, 2016) Album • Page 7

your post was the antagonising one. coming in here with an antagonising post like your op, then your passive aggressive post then crying that you're the one being picked on? nah that's bullshit mate. your post was trash, awful and antagonising. it's exactly the kind of shit posting that jason doesn't want on this site. you deserved a warning. you brought nothing to the conversation bar picking on another user.

 

didn't even cop that

 

No one said anything about rape apologists. Garrett was specifically talking about people who want to discuss this album -- some of whom are rape apologists, yes, but I honestly don't think wanting to listen or talk about this album inherently makes one a rape apologist, and that might be where we differ. It simply comes down to the discussion of art vs. artist and where one feels comfortable drawing their own line that we've had so often recently.

And I'm not sure what the "users that have been around for a while" bit has to do with this, really.

 

This is where I stand as well. If multiple users were in here defending Gira, I could understand the need for the thread to be deleted. But aside from ONE poster, the only argument has been over whether or not listening to his music constitutes supporting his actions... which is a personal moral choice that we should all at least be willing to tolerate regardless of where each of us lands. The notion that moderators should take sides on such a delicate issue, and actually punish users who have a certain stance, is not the right way to go in my opinion.

 

I personally would not consume a rapist's art, as I just wouldn't be comfortable knowing what the person behind the work of art has done. But I don't think someone who is equally appalled by sexual assault, and chooses to separate the art from the artist, is any less moral or "decent" than myself. It's a personal choice in my eyes, one that doesn't have an easy answer for a lot of people.

 

I thought we had agreed that art vs. artist is an extremely nebulous issue on which everyone draws their own line re: what they feel comfortable consuming and theoretically that should be okay, but it doesn't seem that's the case here. We still have people being attacked for wanting to listen to this. I'm disappointed, because I was under the impression people were going to abandon the scorched earth approach to issues such as this.

 

Ok

 

I don't understand the attitude of coming into a thread to attack people talking about a band, then responding so dismissively when someone attempts to legitimately engage you on difficult topics. If you want to talk about "harmful to discourse", that's exactly what that is. It's incredibly unproductive and makes it look as if you care more about being right and shutting down anyone who disagrees than about the topic at hand itself.

 

I hope this wasn't directed at me because I've tried engaging as to why people still want to listen to this knowing Gira is a rapist and got shut down a lot and made to feel really uncomfortable and weird. I think I'm allowed to feel that way, especially after the one user straight up attacked me lol. Cmon Tristan I mean I agree with you that coming in here to pick a fight was a bad move but it's still a hell of a thing to go to hat for.

 

I don't think anyone necessarily needs to publicly offer a reason why they'll still listen to this. I mean, they probably just enjoy the band's music. There have definitely been some hostile posts from that side too, but that kind of thing tends to happen when you're forced to be defensive about something like listening to an album. Again, I think it's okay to accept that everyone's going to draw their own line in situations like this, and I don't think it's necessary to pressure someone either way or demand they answer for however they choose to proceed. Same with Deafheaven, Nothing, Kanye, or any other artist around which there have been similar discussions.

 

yeah let's compare saying ****** on Twitter to actual rape

 

I didn't do that at all. Same strawman you guys always use.

 

Yes you did you drew a parallel to that and other instances to one where actual rape was committed. Extremely foolish ground to tread in my opinion

 

Regardless, if you're hung up on that one sentence, then get rid of it and my point still stands.

 

i mean yeah thats kind of my point, that last sentence is a giant distraction from what youre trying to say. i feel you.

 

I did think for a while about whether to include it and I see how it probably wasn't a good call to do so.

 

You're allowed to feel however you want... but others are also allowed to listen to an album without being forced to defend why. And a good chance is their reasoning is that they love the artist's music, and they have a different line drawn when it comes to these things than you and I do. That shouldn't be cause for them to have to defend themselves.

 

We all have a different line... I won't personally listen to Lostprophets for instance, but I will listen to old DGD and Emarosa albums, because those albums mean a lot to me despite all the shitty things Jonny Craig has done. There's no consensus on this, and there likely never will be.

 

Picking and choosing based on how much you like something is something that I've tried to stop. I can't favor an artist who did the same thing as someone I won't listen to because of how much I like them. For example, weird stuff with Eskimeaux that I can't believe, but it's made me real uncomfortable today thinking about it. Not really sure what I'm going to do. But I need to decide what's right for me

 

How Do You Solve A Problem Like Swans?


EXCELLENT article please read

 

Super super good read. Such a frustrating and challenging thing to come to terms with. Thinking more than ever lately about these type of situations that exist in such a grey area, as well as my privilege, since as a Cis straight white male its immensely important for me to be on the right side of all these issues and speak out to help those that aren't heard. That being said, im at a weird personal impasse here I can't seem to shake. When music isn't involved, and a story surfaces involving assault or rape of any kind towards women, I don't feel any sort of hesitation to not 100% believe what the victim is saying. I hate how I don't react the same way when artists, especially artists I like even a little, are accused of the same. I always hesitate and sometimes even avoid what I know to be an accusation. Plausible deniability and what not. I always try to find a way to explain a way out of it. Things don't add up or 'they couldn't possibly do it' or some other form of victim-blaming; I hate that it's how I respond, but it's the case, and I hope I grow out of it soon.

None of this matters, I realize, it's not related to Swans or that article. Just felt it somewhat relevant and something I'd been wanting to get off my chest. A bit more on topic, I'm glad I was never able to click with Swans. This is a tough situation and it's nice to not have a personal connection blurring even more lines.