Swans - The Glowing Man (June 17, 2016) Album • Page 2

It has everything to do with the topic. It is the same thing.

I'm not trying to personally discredit you.

 

yep this. same thing happened with Kanye. I still enjoy Kanye but I also acknowledge his issues with women and choose not to support him. but sweeping those issues away just to talk about his music leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Its something i struggle with greatly and I dont mean to come in here starting a fight, I just find it hard to decide to listen to this given the evidence against gira.

 

I won't listen to that stuff either. There's also an extremely hostile environment sorrounding that entire genres sub culture.

 

no, accusations that were never proven against MJ vs hard evidence against Gira is not equatable. If you arent trying to discredit then why bring them up? Just weird to randomly throw those out in an attempt to justify or defend.

 

that's fine and I respect that

but don't come preaching when you do the same with Kanye @CoffeeEyes17

 

im not preaching lol. ill just leave this thread. too hostile for me

 

I'm not justifying or defending anything except to say it is a 1:1 scenario. Victims have attested to the MJ and KB cases dude

 

it's the same principle - separating a creation/discovery from its creator/discoverer

if you think this scenario should be treated on a case by case basis, depending on subject, then you're admitting it's of a subjective nature, and each should decide on where they stand on each case

I believe that engaging with art does not mean supporting what an artist does as a human being outside of his art

again, people are not monoliths

I am glad someone is willing to discuss this beyond "jesus fucking christ" remarks, btw

 

I am trying to discuss with you and you're shutting me down. Not much I can do there bud. We strongly disagree on supporting a rapist. No need to get all hostile

Edit: nvm I'll just stop I don't feel comfortable in this thread

 

whatever, just don't say I support a rapist - that's defamatory

you can say H listens to SWANS despite being M Gira's creation - I take responsibility of that

 

I mean you're objectively supporting a rapist, however you see it. You may be okay with it, but you are

 

if you're going to come at me with that, you should explain

 

He is a rapist. You are supporting him by talking positively about his music.

Do what you want, you can talk about it. No matter how you do it, you are supporting him.

 

that's all I have been reading from the start

finish this sentence, please:

You are supporting him by talking positively about his music because...

 

Because you are allowing him to get positive promotion that will allow him to sell tickets and records that will allow him to live comfortably, when he deserves to be locked up.

 

some ideas...

- his art deserves positive promotion, not M. Gira the person

- would giving 1 million dollars to charity make Brokencyde a good band?

- there's no relation between me talking about a piece of art (and supporting it) and the artist not going to jail

- modern (western?) civilizations consider right to work a human right "which includes the right of everyone to the opportunity to gain his living by work which he freely chooses or accepts"... you are an intelligent person, I am sure you agree and believe in human rights... so... one cannot "loose" a human right - as it is not a privilege - it is a universal moral norm inherently applicable to all humans...

- finally...

from What can’t you do with a criminal record? | Prospect Magazine

also that... I don't know, man... I understand this is an emotional topic, and I understand where many of you are coming from and stand... but I've given this topic a long thought for a while too... I am not a rapist-supporter

 

Full album stream is up.

 

Pretty shitty that p4k keeps pushing this record/group, even if it's in a very tertiary manner.

 

kanye tweeting about cosby =/= committing a rape, totally ridiculous and disingenuous to fucking compare the two situations

 

this dude is a rapist, he shouldn't be a public figure.

 

Are they? I've seen a news post about one song but not anything else.

 

Looks like I have the right people blocked. @cwhit talking to himself lol

 

Yes this. Im not going to listen to the album. It doesn't really bother me if people listen on a personal level; if they can separate the music from the person, that's fine. I personally can't.

But on an organizational level, I have no idea how p4k can post something recommending the Swans album today, and expect any of their pieces where they take a social stand, or any of their reviews where they applaud artists for standing up to adversity to hold up.

 

It's in their "8 albums to listen to" section with no mention of the allegations.

 

FYI: We are trying to figure out what to do with this thread. We don't condone the behavior of the artist, but know that this is going to be a record that is going to be discussed. It is important that we have a dialog about the situation that occurred, but we don't want it to devolve into something destructive. Right now, the thread hasn't turned to chaos, but it looks like it may be close. The reason the FPS thread was deleted so quickly was because there was a post that basically called a user "a piece of shit." If we can talk about things in a civilized manner, I think this thread can be maintained. We can add a disclaimer with links to the OP if you guys want to provide them.