Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, December 20, 2019) Movie • Page 43

Discussion in 'Entertainment Forum' started by Jason Tate, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Dodger

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    Hey I don’t care I’m having a lot of fun with this thread! And yeah TLJ title came out January 20-something so we should get it soon.
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  2. aoftbsten

    Trusted Prestigious

    I've definitely been enjoying the conversation in here the last few weeks. My mind has been running through countless possibilities with IX though. I want a bunch of time with Rey, Poe & Finn all together. But I also really want Rey & Kylo to spend all their time on screen together. I think it'll probably be somewhere in the middle like in ROTJ, where the beginning is some fun adventure with all our main characters together and then they'll split up Rey & Kylo doing force related things and Poe/Finn/Rose/BB-8 doing military stuff.
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  3. Zach


    We really need to ask who is left post-snap before we start coming up with our theories. Luke didn’t actually die it is all connected
  4. Dodger Jan 2, 2019
    (Last edited: Jan 3, 2019)

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    Okay so I know its probably too early to talk about this but fuck it im doing it anyways. To go along with my new avatar, Im going to give the top things Id love to see in episode 9 or the things Id like the most. I did it for TLJ and remember I surprisingly got a lot of what I wanted (Yoda, a Luke and Leia scene, further explain the Force, exposing the flaws of the Jedi,Taoism stuff) Only things I didnt get was more Phasma and seeing dark side training with Snoke actually teaching Kylo.

    I know Im going to get shit for doing this as I have before but keep in mind Im not going to hate the movie if I dont get these things. I like speculating and speculating is fine as long as you dont get so attached to what you want. Im just doing this because its fun.

    - Build off of RJ's creativity. This is my number one. Continue to take risks. Star Wars should be about innovation, not a product. I dont care if nothing on this list comes to fruition as long as it challenges me liked TLJ.

    -Rey with a new lightsaber color, preferably yellow, and preferably double sided made out of her staff. Its silly i know. but itd be so rad. I can definitely see her lighting up a new lightsaber in the first teaser and its going to be impossible trying to avoid that for 7 months.

    -New character designs. Fresh new looks.

    -Rey Finn and Poe together for a good portion of the movie.

    -Focus of the story on Rey and Kylo. I loved all the character development in TLJ, but all of the different arcs and separate storylines were a little much and drew away focus from Rey IMO. I want this to be Rey and Kylo's story.

    - this is a minor one but Id love to see Coruscant. Would love to see that planet come back in somehow. That or Mustafar but definitely wouldnt mind totally new planets and new designs though.

    - A new darkside user. Just another source of adversity whether it be against Kylo or Rey. Hux is more comedic relief at this point. I want a legit threat.

    - Tied with that Id love it if that other source of adversity are the Knights of Ren. Just love the concept overall. Would be neat tying in that one shot in the Forceback into this movie making that moment be a vision.

    - Kylo with yellow dark side eyes. Would love if the movie started with a close up of his eyes opening to reveal them and show how far hes gone to the dark side.

    -Luke Force Ghost as a heavy presence. It may be much but maybe 10ish minutes of screen time.

    -Dive deeper into why Ben turned or how “Snoke turned his heart” before the hut incident. Why he has such disdain for Han (which we havent gotten). Just his perspective/ideology more.

    - Rey gets closure on her parentage in any way. While I love that shes not tied to any lineage, I just feel like here needs to be more closure or finality with it. She wasted her whole life waiting for her parents with so much optomism and then finds out her parents were just low-lifes who fucking sold her for drinking money. I dont think thats something you just brush off and forget. Thats going to gnaw at her forever. Maybe she goes back Jakku for a scene at the start of the movie hovering over there graves? Any type of closure for that.

    I have another big one but I dont feel like bringing it up now because I feel like a lot would hate it and it would spark a conversation and Id rather just see what other people would like to see. Lol
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  5. aoftbsten

    Trusted Prestigious

    I like a lot of these.

    - A new saber in a different color would be awesome

    - I'd love to see the continued exploration of the power struggle with Hux and Kylo (my favorite lowkey subplot of this trilogy). I don't think he needs to continue to be a punching bag this time around. It worked in TLJ because Snoke was looming large. But I think in this, with a passage of time Kylo's weakness in decision making will lead to some dissent within the First Order, giving Hux more power. Kylo uses the Knights of Ren as intimidation to keep across the galaxy and within the FO itself.

    - I'd like to see Kylo basically ascending into madness. He's grown more powerful, but he's still unhinged (making him even more terrifying).

    - What is life like for someone who's planet has been taken over by the FO? I'd like to spend a little time exploring this. Just seeing how beat down everything is with them in charge. Rose describes in TLJ, but I'd love to see it. There could be great character moments from Rose (sad to see the horrors of her childhood spreading across the galaxy) and Finn (seeing this type of suffering at a scale he's never seen outside of the small glimpses on Jakku and Canto Bight).

    - On the flip side of that, I want to see more of how the 1% of the galaxy lives and profits from the rise of the FO.

    - I've said it before, but Finn having a storyline where he tries to convince more FO stormtroopers to fight with the resistance would be cool. In the final act, maybe he convinces a squadron to turn against the FO and join them.

    - Mark Hamill's idea of force ghost Luke haunting Kylo was kind of goofy but it could be interesting to see a dark side user reacting to a force ghost for once.

    - Some acknowledgment of how history seems to keep repeating itself in this galaxy (empires fall and rebellions take them down, then empires rise again) and that the reason hate keeps prevailing is that they only ever fight it back into the shadows, but never eliminate it and keep fighting it. It'd be a solid social commentary on the world today and bit of meta nod to how this trilogy has mirrored the old one.

    I'm sure this film will mirror ROTJ to a certain degree, but I think there's been enough storylines and themes set up in TFA and TLJ that they can still make this a unique final chapter.
    SEANoftheDEAD likes this.
  6. Dodger

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    Good point about Kylos decision making, but at the same time Hux made awful decisions as well (being bated by Poe, not scrambling the fighters early which pissed off Kanady.) Definitely more highlighted in the book how Hux is focused on feeling superior than winning. I could see Kylo killing Hux within the first act of the movie. Its just hard to see there really being a struggle at all between the two considering Kylo can do what he did to him in TLJ in the throne room with the Force choke. But I guess if the FO starts to question Kylo and not want to follow him because he’s a bad leader I’d be down for something like that.

    I do feel like we haven’t gotten much of the FO or just the state of the galaxy overall so I’d really like that too.

    I’d like both of these a lot but they seem like storylines that require a lot of screen time since they both serious and deep topics.

    Ya know I hated this idea for so long because I always thought Forceghosts or just becoming one with the Force was such a special achievement to somebody who’s let go of all attachments and in total balance and “haunting” somebody just seemed contradictory to that. But if they played it in a way where Luke is trying to challenge his ideology I think there could be some great dialogue scenes and it could be played in horror way where it’s kind of torturing Kylo. Plus I’m down forays much Hamill as possible.

    Oof this is deep and could have a huge philosophical discussion on it that I’d love. I’ll just say that I’d love if they continue to address the cycles of imbalance. Rian nailed it so well with TLJ especially when talking about the Jedi Order itself. You can really see the pattern with the old Jedi Order causing Jedi like Anakin and Dooku to turn because of the imbalance of too much Order. Then Luke’s new Jedi Order causing Kylo (presumably for the same reasons as the old order). Also just like the Old Republic causing the Enpire the New Republic causing the First Order because of an imbalance of too much chaos. Bloodline explains how there was so much chaos in the New Republic because of all the conflict and arguing that nothing ever got done and all these issues were put off and the galaxy suffered for it. from that the First Order was born who’s focus is obviously order (through a dictatorship and less deliberation) to counteract that chaos (which is heavily eluded to in Phasma).
    And imbalance of too much Order of the Empire causing the chaos or “anarchy” of the rebellion which has been eluded to in Lost Stars. There’s a lot of overcorrection basically

    if JJ somehow was able to address something this deep and end the saga in a way that fixes that it’d be incredible I just don’t see a space adventure movie to tackle something so political or so big picture I guess.
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  7. aoftbsten

    Trusted Prestigious

    Yea, like you I'm not expecting any of this to happen. And some of the themes might be a little too much for a blockbuster to tackle. Still, it's fun to speculate on this kind of stuff. It sparks my imagination.
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  8. Dodger Jan 3, 2019
    (Last edited: Jan 3, 2019)

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    True but I thought they’d never tackle the vanity and strictness of the Jedi Order and their rules and they did pretty in TLJ. Not in a deep way but I’m just happy it was a strong motivational factor for what Luke was trying to do. He’s blaming the Jedi model for his failure with Ben and wanting to end the religion because of it.

    So there’s still hope! If they even elude to something like the pattern of overcorrection I’d be happy because I love filling in the depth with my own interpretation anyways.
    aoftbsten likes this.
  9. Dodger

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    I thought this was going to spark a fun discussion lol. Nobody else has anything they’d like to see?
  10. justin.


    It’s most likely guaranteed that no footage will come until April.

    And I would really like an orange lightsaber.
    Dodger likes this.
  11. Brother Beck

    Trusted Supporter

    I feel bad because I haven't really hashed out a specific list like you have done, but I think this is exactly the time for a discussion like this. After being seriously let down by the prequels I said to myself 'these are just movies' and told myself I would not get THAT hyped up again, but I would be lying if I said I didn't feel that magic again when I sat down to watch TFA & TLJ.

    The main point that you made that really resonates with me is that I also want to see them continue to take risks and build off that creativity. Even when I consciously tried to tell myself 'take it easy, these are a product' it didn't kill the magic for me. TLJ challenged me in a HUGE way while I was watching it. During the opening scenes, nothing felt natural to me and it did not feel like I was watching a Star Wars movie AT ALL, and by the end of the film I was fully on board with everything that was happening to the point where I almost jumped out of my seat and cheered. I personally am not as hung up on the specific story details as long as they do that, because at the end of the day, TLJ was not the film I would have made in Rian Johnson's shoes and I consider TLJ a masterpiece that goes toe-to-toe with Empire.

    All of that being said, I would be fired up if we saw and spent some time with The Knights of Ren. I would also really like to see Rey get some closure on her parentage. It doesn't matter whether her parents are from the most famous and infamous family in the galaxy or not, they are her parents. To a little kid and for a time they are the only people in the galaxy who matter whoever they are.
  12. aoftbsten

    Trusted Prestigious

    If I had to guess, I think Keri Russell and Dominic Monaghan will be playing Rey's parents in some sort of flashback/forceback. Matt Smith will be playing one of the Knights of Ren.
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  13. Brother Beck

    Trusted Supporter

    I love the sounds of all of this.
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  14. Kyle Max

    Trusted Prestigious

    I still think Rey being left has something to do with Snoke or Kylo’s revolt in Jedi camp haha
    Dodger likes this.
  15. Dodger

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    Love all of this. Yeah you can tell yourself they are just movies all you want but they are definitely more than that. It’s fine to dislike things and be disappointed by art like you were with the prequels. It’s more just how you handle that negativity or dislike of something. I’m fine with people being disappointed by TLJ but saying Star Wars is dead hating RJ and KK say isn’t a great way to handle it lol

    Can’t say I’ve seen many who had such a strong negative reaction at the start of TLJ end up having the opposite reaction by the end. Interesting. Did you even dislike Paige’s sacrifice and all that?
  16. Dodger

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    Wouldnt be upset by that although its hard for me to imagine those two as a pair. Im hoping Russel has a little more screen time than just a flashback. Im kind of hoping shes a part of the Rebellion in a leadership role.
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  17. aoftbsten

    Trusted Prestigious

    I kind of want her to be a Knight of Ren. That'd be pretty awesome.

    Keri Russell. Knights of Ren. KR. It all adds up.
  18. Dodger

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    Id love our first live-action evil woman in the SW galaxy. Ventress was so good. Hard for me to imagine them making Keri seem evil though. Thats gonna be hard.
    Petit nain des Îles likes this.
  19. Brother Beck

    Trusted Supporter

    I didn't dislike Paige's sacrifice per se - I did think that was very powerful and well done even the very first time I watched it play out - it was more that the opening scenes didn't *feel* like Star Wars to me at all. My brain knew it was supposed to be in the Star Wars universe and I was certainly seeing a lot of the trappings and cues, but everything just felt off. I think the hardest adjustment was the Luke stuff, where there were moments that felt to be like they veered dangerously close to a SW parody. Some of the Poe / Hux humor early on was striking me the same way. I remember noticing visual stuff that bugged me like where I was thinking it was clearly shot digitally, which I believe is not the case and it was in fact shot on film.

    I can understand where some of the criticisms of the film are coming from because it is how I felt as the beginning of the film played for me the first time. I don't know if this has ever happened to me before in my life where I've done such a complete 180 during the actual watching of a movie for the first time, but literally everything about the movie just clicked into place for me perfectly. I distinctly remember the very red fight scene in throne room as a point in the film where I was fully on board and not questioning anything or picking things apart. By the closing scenes I truly felt like I was watching something incredible, and the movie has only grown in my esteem since that time.
    Dodger likes this.
  20. aoftbsten

    Trusted Prestigious

    I had a similar reaction the first time I watched it. I remember at the Poe/Hux gag thinking "this is great, but it feels more like Thor Ragnarok than Star Wars" (though I do think most of the humor in this, that gag included, was in line with most Star Wars humor). Right after the Fathier chase I remember thinking "okay this movie is good, but not the great one I wanted it to be". But pretty much everything after that scene completely changed my mind.

    I think a big part that I don't see discussed a lot is Johnson's visual style and Yedlin's cinematography are very very different from what's been seen in Star Wars before. I'm not technically proficient enough to really describe the differences accurately, but I would say all the previous films were filmed in a more straightforward way. Like you were watching scenes from this world with your own eyes. But Johnson's visual style has a look that almost makes it look like a fairy tale (I personally think it's the most beautiful looking Star Wars film). On a more subconscious level, I think that change was jarring to some and led to it not feeling like the Star Wars they know.
    Dodger likes this.
  21. Sean Murphy

    Trusted Supporter

    I thought the Poe/Hux back and forth went on just a touch too long for a scene that essentially starts the movie, but, i have no real issues with it, and did laugh out loud the first time i saw it.
    Dodger likes this.
  22. Dodge725


    Can someone explain what “feels like Star Wars” means? For as often as I’ve seen that phrase, I still have no idea what it actually means or what’s being referred to.
  23. Sean Murphy

    Trusted Supporter

    i take it to mean that what's happening is in the same vein as what is typically the status quo for a SW film. part of why i enjoyed TLJ is because it DIDNT feel like SW. it felt like a more daring/risk-taking movie. it didn't feel as SW as TFA did.

    if that helps...? lol
  24. Dodger

    “The greatest teacher, failure is”

    While i don’t mind people saying it, it means something different to everyone and can refer to a lot of different aspects of the films which is kind of the issue when saying that. Some people its regarding the mythology with the lightsabers and the lore type stuff. Some it’s visual/musical. Some it’s the action adventure feel.

    I personally think a large part of the "Star Wars feel" that most can agree on, aside from the fun action/adventure feeling is a sense like the universe is real and tangible and it feels like you sucked into it. The practical effects Id say are a big part of that. It’s the verisimilitude of the lived-in atmosphere of the sets, which is highlighted with Tattoine, the falcon, the cantina, Dagobah. All these ships/places feel like they’ve been used for a long time.

    I can see why the comedy of TLJ takes people out and detaches them from that sense of being sucked into this real universe. Maybe because it feels like the movie is “trying” to do something in this case make them laugh. As opposed to a natural funny moment like BB-8s thumbs up.

    For me the Star Wars feel, along with the fun, the music, and verisimilitude of the universe has more to do with how I feel watching it and themes. For me Solo didn’t feel as much like Star Wars because it really didn’t inspire an excitement in me, peak my curiosity, provoke me intellectually but that’s totally subjective. And TLJ has more of the “SW feel” than other because of how much it challenged me and how much I pondered on it and all the thematic weight.
  25. dlemert