Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, December 20, 2019) Movie • Page 213

Yep. It's a bummer really.

 

Just post about it on this site, follow very select people on Twitter, and listen to Force Center.

 

And listen to bing mode star wars. They are pretty positive on everything, even if they didn't like something ie attack of the clones

 

I’ll add Skytalkers podcast and Jedi Council too now that its Ken, Emma Fyffe, and Ace. Just don’t read comments lol

 

Had a long conversation yesterday with one of my best friends who isn't a fan of The Last Jedi... honestly, as much as I enjoy the movie overall, I do think there are valid criticisms of it, some of which I share. Him and I had a very constructive friendly debate about things we liked and disliked about TLJ, and found many common points of agreement.

The point I'm getting at is... I absolutely think a lot of the online discourse around TLJ has become incredibly toxic, and there IS definitely a lot of criticism rooted in sexism/racism. However, I do wish defenders of the movie would recognize that there's a lot of people out there who also have critiques of TLJ that are NOT based around prejudice, and are focused on actual aspects of moviemaking like the script, storytelling choices, character development, i.e. things that *SHOULD* be the basis of criticism.

I have a ton of admiration for Rian Johnson and what he did with Star Wars, but I definitely don't think TLJ is a flawless masterpiece, and I think it should be okay to be able to express differing viewpoints on the actual substance of the film without it being dismissed. I do think it's a bit of a weird spot to be in right now as a fan when both sides of this debate are so vocal and unwilling to budge... fans seem to be split into thinking TLJ is a masterpiece or ruined the franchise, and frankly my thoughts are more mixed. I definitely don't think people should be surprised that a movie *DESIGNED* in many ways by the writer/director to be divisive and polarizing ended up being exactly that.

 

Yeah, I don’t like or care about one third or maybe half of TLJ but the things I do care about are like 11/10 for me, so altogether I love the movie.

 

The majority of the criticism I see is utter nonsense. The movie isn’t perfect. There are things I don’t like about it or would have preferred something different. Most people don’t mention the legit stuff.

I’m sure there are some out there that do, but I have almost never seen them.

 

What would you consider "the legit stuff"? I see a lot of comments concerning some of my issues with the movie. Like I said, overall I do enjoy the movie a lot because the high points are some of the best Star Wars since the OT, but I do take issue with things like:

-Pretty much the entire Canto Bight subplot, which could be cut entirely with the movie losing virtually nothing of value
-Holdo's "secret plan" being hidden from Poe and what the actual purpose/logic of that even is... are we really as an audience supposed to take away the message of "just blindly follow authority and things will turn out alright"?
-Showing very little of the actual Rey/Luke training dynamic onscreen
-Weird tonal shifts/out of place humor that doesn't always land or takes you out of the movie... what I can only describe as "wtf moments" like Luke drinking the space cow milk, Poe's prank phone call, etc.

There's other things too but I hit on some of the bigger ones for me. I actually really appreciate the bigger risks Rian took in the movie... things like Kylo killing Snoke, and Luke's Force projection, were awesome and unexpected in the best way. But I don't think that means every decision he made is beyond reproach.

 

That's basically where I'm at too. Overall it's a great movie, but there's still some major decisions made that leave me scratching my head even now.

 

The “A” story of TLJ is awesome and I don’t mind the decisions they made regarding Luke, Rey, etc. The “B” plot is what drives me nuts. Feels so incredibly pointless.

 

Most of that has been utterly beaten to death in the TLJ thread. I’m about to fall asleep and don’t feel like typing a ton. and I’m exhausted from explaining the same things to people. Some of your points are not true/illogical and others come down to preference which is totally an opinion thing. It’s just The vocal haters were an absolute cancer just under two year ago and really soured discussing Star Wars even on here. I’m pretty sure I unsubscribed from the thread even. I should have never responded. Have a good night.

 

I've said this before, but it really feels to me like Rian was almost done writing his draft of the script to turn into the studio, plotted everything out, and then the night before the deadline said, "I feel like I'm forgetting something... OH FUCK, I forgot about Finn! What is he gonna do during this whole movie??"... so he stayed up all night and came up with what became Canto Bight lol

Honestly I totally feel for writers/directors put in a situation like Rian was in, having to pick up in the middle of a series with a ton of characters and moving pieces that all have to be moved forward in some way. But yeah, to me Finn's subplot especially felt like filler.

 

Fair enough... I had no intention of causing you any stress. You certainly are under no obligation to respond, a lot of my points were just general thoughts that anyone can respond to (or not).

I don't really appreciate being told some of my viewpoints on the movie are "not true/illogical" however, when I think they all boil down to the personal preference you described shortly after. Some of the choices made in the movie didn't work for me personally, and I think that's fair that we agree to disagree.

 

I quite like TLJ. While being low on my list of my SW films ranking, some of the stuff in it (Throne room scene, Yoda's scene, Kylo vs. Luke at the end) is fantastic.

What annoys me about the whole thing is how the pissy fanboys missed the entire point of what TLJ represents.

- Subverting fan expectiations. "This isn't going to go the way you think."
- Apparently the character of Luke was destroyed? Get fucked. He seemed pretty heroic at the end force projecting himself to help the Resistance.
- Rose wasn't a shit character. I found her part to be a nice addition to the story. Kelly Marie-Tran did not deserve the hate she got and still gets to this day.
- Rey and Holdo being feminism SJW propaganda? Oh so there's chicks in your beloved franchise now. Cry me a fucking river.

I just get so annoyed at the toxic noise surrounding Star Wars at the moment. My 5 year old niece dressed as Rey recently when we went on a holiday to Disneyland, and got a hug from the Disney cast member playing Rey. That's what Star Wars is about, and when I remember that I get happy again that we live in such an exciting time to be a fan of this franchise.

 

Luke drinking the space milk was great. Will never understand people that dislike that scene.

 

I see this one a lot so I'll address it. At the end of the day, the Resistance is a military organization. You follow the chain of command. Remember, Poe just disobeyed a direct order from his superior officer and did what he wanted and got a bunch of people killed, people that the Resistance, with their limited military resources, couldn't spare. His plan was so reckless that he got demoted.

As the newly promoted leader of the Resistance, would you trust a guy like that? A guy who disobeys orders and puts others in danger, doing whatever he thinks is best? Of course not. He doesn't need to know. And he STILL went about making his own plans despite being told to stand down, hence the whole Canto Bight fiasco, not to mention the part where he conspires against the leadership and forcefully takes command. He still doesn't get it by that point.

Only at the very end when he realizes he's about to lead a bunch of people into a suicide mission does he call it off and retreat. Dude finally learned his lesson, but it was only after a bunch of people got killed and a failed coup.

 

Canto Bight is vital to the plot (the resistance getting caught escaping) and Finn's arc. Is it executed perfectly? No. It's definitely a weaker part of the film, but I will never understand how people say it's pointless.

I've never understood the Holdo complaints. Her reasoning is laid out pretty bare. Poe is reckless (and kind of proves that point throughout the film until the end) and was just demoted. She even tells him to go to his post and await her orders, aka you're going to know the plan once it's all figured out and you have a part to play in it. Also, if Poe is such a great leader himself, why is it okay for him to withhold his Canto Bight plan from Holdo? It goes both ways here.

The movie for sure has its flaws, but those aren't it.

 

Dang. Rian wasn’t even creative or original on how to handle Luke. Embarrassing

 

Any time I see someone critique Canto Bight (which even a lot of fans of the film do), I immediately realize how futile a deep conversation about the film would probably be.

Not because people who aren’t into the sequence are stupid, but because people who think it doesn’t matter to the story clearly think about storytelling in a way that’s so fundamentally different from me... We’re almost speaking different languages.

That being said, I always gotta mention that I’ve got one friend who hates the film, who sees a lot of life differently from me, who I love to talk to because we’re able to respect our different perspectives. So, it is possible, as hard as it seems to be for 99% of people.

 

Holdo would've been more justified having Poe executed than she would have been explaining her entire plan to him.

 

The best thing about the Canto scene by and large for me is that it is a total and complete failure.

 

This is where I'm at at this point too, which is why I just stopped having the same conversations again, and again, and again. Haha.

 

I do find it off that BTD hasn’t been announced to be in episode IX. Are they just going to ignore his character?

 

I would assume he just won’t be in it