Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 361

I agree. first time I watched I was like, are you kidding me, how could she stop him, but second time I thought it was great because there's already so little of them left, they've lost enough people, now's the time to save each other and stick together. I think the line in great, sure it's got some cheese, but so does plenty of other great lines. the kiss is a little forced maybe, but it doesn't really bother me.

 

seriously Id always thought the idea of Finn could result in some very interesting themes

 

Irrelevant factoid of the day: so in my 13th viewing of the last jedi I noticed that during Maz' video game mission holo, the sound effect for the Rathtars comes up while shes fighting so she could be fighting those rolling octopus'.

Also when Holdo first talks to Poe when hes trying to give her advice, 4 of the 5 same notes of Vader's theme plays when she says "So stick to your post and follow my orders." (Easier to hear in the score-only version) Maybe a coincidence but could be an intentional decision to hijack our subconscious association with that theme to think of her as the bad guy. Honestly that line definitely rubbed me the worng way and made me actually question if she had bad intentions.

 

Also god the sound design in this movie is fucking incredible

 

I think for sure we were meant to assume Holdo was bad/had alterior motives.

 

Just finished. Ive said it befoe and will say it again. I love this movie more and more with each viewing. The main thing that was enhanced this viewing was the different perspectives of each character. Whos eyes were supposed to view through. And how the different types of fans view these perspectives or lack there of the opposing perspective.

We are so trained to think of Poe's archetype as the hero and were supposed to view that whole story arc with Holdo through his eyes. I think most of the viewers (including me) and including most of the fans who hated all of the Holdo stuff kind of ignores or doesnt realize important things because Rian successfully puts us into Poe's shoes.

For example, not many pick up on the hypocrisy of his line "its a need to know plan, and she doesnt." Just like Poe so many people want to know the plan and dont understand why she doesnt inform us. And we dont realize its because of people like DJ. We overlook when 3PO tells Poe that Holdo was looking for him after the mutiny, seemingly showing that Holdo, since they were so close and there was no chance for him to fuck it up or for that sensitive info to get out, WAS going to inform him of the plan that is before Poe explains this secret mission and then she gets pissed.

With Finn the haters that just hate everything about the storyline and think it was pointless really dont understand or just dont like Rose's perspective and the saving what you love theme at all. I always hear "thats what he was doing!" which kind of shows this because his motivation was clear, "No I wont let them win!" which is something people dont really reference. Hes not trying to save anybody, hes trying to win and ignores the cost of that (just like Poe did earlier).

Then the whole Rashomon effect with Kylo and Luke's story. So many people see the Luke from Kylos vision and thats how they saw Rian's Luke through the whole movie and all of his decisions, as opposed to Lukes version.

Granted you can see this about all art, but its amazing how many situations in this movie exemplify the Rashomon effect where two radically different interpretations are involved and it actually colors how the ENTIRE movie is viewed (just like that interpretation in the hut). So many people view The Last Jedi and Rian Johnson as the Luke from Kylos vision. Then when they see Luke dying they dont see the character that we all do as this flawed character who had a great arc and finally was able to fulfill his duty, legend, and spread hope through the galaxy and see his death as this peaceful, purposeful becoming one with the Force. All they feel is not my Luke. Luke wouldnt do this. Yes finally hes facing the first order. Oh hes not even there this sucks (while the other side is like "HES NOT EVEN THERE THIS IS AWESOME.") And now you are killing Luke. why does he have to die?!?!? (While the other side is crying and saying "He managed to fufill his duty while still being a pacifist. OMG THE BINARY SUNS! This is PERFECT."

Idk. There are really two main radically different interpretations in this movie from Snokes death, to Poe and Holdo, to Finns arc, to Reys parents, and so on. Its no wonder that this is one of the most divisive movies ever and so vigourously loved and equally hated.

 

Great point. I'd never even thought about that, but yea he's obviously guilty there too.

I brought that up when talking to a friend who is lukewarm (pun not intended. fuck it. pun intended) on the movie and he just told me I was reaching. I think the placement of that line in the script and the fire with which Boyega delivers it feels pretty intentional to me though.

I've heard some "reachy" praise for elements of the movie, but on the whole, it has so many details like that in it that I feel most are of them must have been purposefully written by Johnson. The dude deserves credit for the thought he put into the script even if it doesn't work for some.

I might start calling this Star Wars: Episode 8: The Rashomon Effect.

 

Agreed. As much as I love this movie I think he tried to do too much at times, but Im amazed at everything he was able to do.

Yeah that line is not at all a reach. I think the line gets forgotten because theres a solid time gap with the ship collision,a cut away to poe sliding into the trench, then Finn asking why she saved him, but her direct response to that "Wont let them WIN" comment is "thats how were going to WIN. not fighting what we hate...saving what we love." If those two lines were connected more I think it wouldve been more powerful or at least received better.

Maybe instead of focusing on Finn and making us believe he was a goner, right when he says "i wont let them win" she says her line (albeit in a more kind of pleading fashion." then he takes off his headphones, then we focus on Rose more. We see her look at her medallion and think of how she lost her sister and doesnt want to lose somebody else she loves so she kind of gets mad and yells "no!" and turns around and saves him. Its arguable that since Finns arc was ended in him simply deciding to fight while in the base, Rose (who we saw crying from losing Paige who was her hero and fawning over Finn who she saw as a hero) is kind of taking the hero role on herself (Like Rey) and finishing her arc so it maybe couldve been more from her perspective. And you dont get the red herring that many didnt like.

...and then maybe cut out the kiss. I get it was a cool shot with the cannon going off, but it just felt unnatural to me and many others. I wouldve rather the cannon going off JUST as Rose knocks him out of the way to show that he really was wrong and he wouldve died for nothing. Then to a lot of those fans she also seems more like a hero.

 

This makes me smile every time I think about it

 

Lol she doesnt even say pew at the same time that she makes the shooting motion

 

that is a good gif lol

 

Thanks to the recommendation from @ship90 I started listening to Wayward Jedi and am on his spoiler review. Idk if he genuinely believes this but when he first saw the movie he thought of Poe clearing out the surface cannons as a "visual metaphor for destroying fan's head cannon". Obviously I dont think thats the case, but I do kind of like that lol Also Hux's face at :34 as hes watching it happen does remind me of a fan whos head canon is getting demolished.

Edit: Also I love Canady. Woudve loved him to survive into 9

 

Can somebody explain to me why during Luke’s first lesson, when Rey sees the dark place on the island she gets soaked? I get that she “went straight to the dark” so she kind of explores that wet cave through the Force. It’s something I just kind of just brush off but that is pretty interesting. I guess it’s the same principle as Kylo getting water on his glove when through the ForceSkype with Rey. It’s just weird because I can’t imagine what that would look like played out in one shot or real time because she ends up in front of the rock gasping for air but theres 2 shots played in reverse with the water going upward. One with her sitting and the water getting up on her. Then one with her hand on the ground with water getting dumped.

 

It really really kills me to say I didn't enjoy this movie. I just watched it again earlier this week for the first time since opening night and my opinion of it has not changed. And I'm someone who thoroughly enjoyed Episode 7 and loved Rouge One.

I definitely didn't hate it. In fact I tried with all my heart to love it because of my love for Star Wars but I really couldn't force myself to love this one. Still hopeful for Episode 9.

 

Its understandable. Not for everyone. Glad at least you kept an open mind. Hope you love Episode 9!

What didnt you like about it?

 

I was writing a short essay but the more I wrote it I realized I'm very bad I wording my feelings/opinions on this. I think overall the reason I couldn't like this movie was because it didn't make me FEEL like previous movies did. Emotionally I was not connected with this one like I did with the other films. Going into this film, I was the type of fan that thought I couldn't NOT like anything Star Wars related. I was fully prepared to love this film. There are definitely specific aspects of this film that made me feel this way. Between Luke, Leia, Snoke, Finn/Rose. A lot of this didn't not feel right to me. As someone who read a lot of the EU, I find myself liking a lot of the EU stories a lot more than the new Canon story.

I know I'm being very vague in my reasoning. Like I said previously, I was writing essay about this but I just don't know exactly how to word how I feel about it. Simply put, in the end it just left me feeling empty. Despite my disappointment, it didn't ruin the New Trilogy for me and I'm still very hopeful that JJ will do great things with Episode 9.

 

Nah I think the natural feeling you get or didn’t get is the most logical reason to not like something lol There are a lot of movies for me where just too many things feel unnatural and being taken out of a movie is a rational reason to not enjoy something. I get it.

 

You’re reaction is way too rational, I don’t know how to handle it

 

Moved this to this thread so it wouldn’t derail the thread.

That’s the thing though. I don’t think TLJ created anything but simply shined a light on what the fandom truly was deep down. Adversity shows who people really are and in this setting of fandom, how people respond. I’ve seen so many people change the way they talk about art because of this movie, including myself.

The reaction of TLJ down to Marks reaction as well literally adds to the weight of the themes of TLJ and the themes of Star awardsz The attachment to a symbol/a legend rather than what the symbol represents. The deification of the Jedi.

All that shit.

Totally not saying you are wrong for being pissed about everything and the dissonance of having to experience all the hate speech and ignorant toxic fans and all of that. It truly does suck but personally I love how much I learned from the experience of dealing with the backlash of this movie. I’ve had so many arguments in my head with the haters of this movie. The divisiveness and hatred of this movie I love used to make me so mad and bother me so much. But now for the rest of my life I’ll know how to deal with it

The winning by “not fighting what you hate, saving what you love.” Theme is my art mantra now.

 

Just had a random thought. Anybody think that the success of Knives Out makes a difference to the chances of RJ’s trilogy happening? Right now especially with this announced break happening and Kennedy’s deal ending I think in 2021, I still don’t his trilogy is for sure. I feel like it’s 50/50. Considering how reactive studios are and Trevorrow getting fired after Book of Henry wasn’t a coincidence, I do think it does matter a smidge.

I think if Knives Out comes out and kills it will definitely add some positive buzz. Also if it comes out and isn’t received well I could see it hurting his chances.

I have faith KO will be good, I’m just hoping it’s great and does well at the box office.

 

He hasn’t made a bad movie yet. I think it’ll do just fine.

 

It’s hard for me to imagine it being bad especially with that cast. If anything I hope it at least makes even those who didn’t like TLJ to be more down for another SW by him.