Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 267

Yoda exiled himself, but he did train Luke. If you read the ROTS novel (which, I believe is canon last time I checked), Yoda went to exile knowing he had to stay alive in case he had to train future Jedi. Luke basically went to die and had no desire in training anyone to help the rebels. Big difference. One left in order to help the future, one stayed on an island and hoped he would never have to help again.

 

Uhhhhh. Sure. If you say so.

 

Yoda was guided by Qui-Gon. I thought he learned it more from the shaman of the whills (TCW). Yoda was training on dragobah from ROTS to His death to do it but I don’t think we got that much insight. Do we know how Obi Wan did it in canon? I was hoping they’d get into that in his solo movie. I really don’t think there is that definitive of answers about the ability. I think a lot of past Jedi have compassion. They were originally all about peace. If it was just compassion it’d look like hogwarts with all the force ghosts around. There’s been 4 who became one with the force. I don’t think compassion is the only prerequisite.

A lot of this is less whatever is in canon/“truth” and more just my interpretation of the mythology. You might be right, but I don’t see the dark side as force lightening and force chokes and all that. I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Just like the light side isnt a good thing. That’s just the way I see the force. Just like Taoism. Too much of one without the other is imbalance.

I feel like qui-gon/Yoda/Obi/Anakin(somehow?)/luke
Were the only force users to achieve this balance that allowed them to achieve what most others could not.


Edit: sorry bout the weird text. On the road and was using Notes to write it so I didn’t have to use data lol

 

And what are the moral implications of that? It is abandonment in times of mass murder.

 

Luke’s self imposed exile makes him one of the most thematically and psychologically interesting Star Wars characters since Vader’s arc in the original trilogy, maybe? Kylo is up there but the inner conflict of Luke in the Last Jedi is one of the most interesting things Star Wars has given an audience to think about and speculate about and draw from in the whole series of feature films.

 

The Jedi have always been a flawed institution, one of the ideas that, while executed poorly, was a pretty intriguing concept the prequels tried to tackle. The culmination and exploration of the rebirth/reformation of the Jedi is one of the best parts of TLJ.

 

It's a fact that Yoda and Luke had different intentions for separating themselves away from others. It doesn't matter if you don't believe so when it's clearly stated.

 

There was already a Kylo Stimpy

 

I think Mark is being a bit silly too, but Yoda definitely didn't give up on the Jedi like Luke did.

 

I dont think Luke is meant to be absolved from these actions. Hes supposed to have this conflict.

It seems that some fans of TLJ dont see the issue with his morality and compare him to Yoda or talk about his severing from the force or whatever reason. Its supposed to be gray though. And some people that take issue with his morality dont like the film.

The film asks you to look at the morality of his actions. Hes a complicated character now. I dont see that people understand this yet.

 

I think that was a good way of explaining that and voiding that argument. He had no idea what had been happening for all this time, he literally was just hermitting on a rock drinking milk and honing his fishing skills.

 

Couldn’t agree more. It’s exactly what I wanted and they managed to do it without just throwing away the Jedi. The old Jedi died with luke. New Jedi order with Rey.

“Order arises out of chaos”.

 

I mean sure, doesn't mean he willingly let it happen? Maybe he thought he was protecting people by isolation. He took his nephew and let him become infatuated with dark side of Anakin. Luke had understood what the Jedi Order did to Anakin in his life and their faults, and maybe realized the Jedi were best left out of the conflict, until he met Rey. Someone who can maybe adequately balance the force within her.

Seeing her have absolute rage (screaming when fighting alongside Kylo) to still believing the good in people, shows her balance in this film.

 

I really think this misses an important thread of the film.

 

I don’t know if I saw absolute rage from Rey in this.

 

Again, if you say so.

But they both let people die while they hid. Yoda saying in some random book that he was hiding for 17 years just in case any force sensitive people happen to show up doesn’t make the result of their actions any different.

When we meet Yoda in Empire, all we know is that he is hiding from the fight. What Hanmill said is silly.

Maybe they will write a book and he will properly explain why he exiled himself after the fact and that will settle everything.

 

For those of you that don’t like the way they went with luke of him giving up, are you mad at Rian for that?

IMO that’s 100% JJ. He made that decision and let Rian take all the heat for that decision lol (brilliant) rian should take literally zero blame for the fact that he gave up. You may disagree still with the characterization/personality but Rian had to justify him being on that island and I think he did that.

 

The fact that luke is the way he is, is exactly what makes the movie great/interesting, it’s the point of the whole thing

 

Yea, I kind of really want a proper Luke book detailing some portion of post ROTJ up to Ben’s turn.

Not doing so yet makes perfect sense. But now that we have seen what happened in a movie after the turn, we should get something.

While the Legend of Luke Skywalker book tied in way more than I thought it would, it is not a worthy book to truly fill us in. That book serves its purpose. But I think the fans deserve a legitimate Luke Skywalker book.

 

Agreed. I see people who are denying the point of what we are shown in the film.

 

What is this “give up on the Jedi” stuff. That is not the discussion at all.

Mark Hamill said “jedis don’t give up,” which is why he had a problem. He didn’t say anything about giving up on the Jedi. Just that they don’t give up...full stop. That is the discussion.

 

I was referring to the moment when she is fighting Snoke's guards and lets out a huge scream while fighting. It certainly looked angered.

 

I mean, she yelled out in pain at one point when she got cut... is it that moment?

 

Nah when she was fighting the guards I think twice she lets out pretty intense screams.