Spider-Man: Homecoming (July 7, 2017) Movie • Page 79

I'm with Tim.

 

Despite the numerous flaws (which @Tim always willingly admits), I really enjoyed ASM2. It's at least on par with Homecoming for me.

 

From a visual standpoint alone, it's beautiful. I would love to see Marc Webbs near mythic directors cut

 

Obviously they didn't, but they could have. Tonally and whatnot, all the fun friendly neighborhood scenes felt like what ASM2 had already accomplished. If you had taken Spidey being asked to do a back flip or helping an old lady or going all Ferris Bueller when he can't sling his webs, and placed them into like that ASM2 montage where he helped the science kid and has a cold (or anywhere else in the film), it would've fit right in.

For all of that film's flaws, it was the one that perfected those kind of charming Spidey sequences.

The Raimi films gave the Spidey scenes all the charm of a moist log (which is weird, since the Raimi personality elsewhere in those films show that they could've been more, but maybe that's mostly Tobey's fault). ASM was telling a specific origin tale that didn't have as much room for that as the sequel did. And, Homecoming was held back by half the scenes feeling more like a kid Iron Man than Spidey (which provided genuine lols but just weren't Spider-Man moments).

Sure, SM2 and Homecoming had the best villains, ASM had the best origin narrative, and Homecoming nailed high school Peter perfectly; even SM3 has that fantastic Sandman transformation scene. And, yeah, ASM2 is narratively a hot mess (albeit one that could easily be refined into something great with what they shot). But, if we're only talking the scenes centered on a costumed Spider-Man doing Spider-Man-y things, the other 5 films just clearly fall short.

 

They only thing I liked about ASM2 was Peter and Gwen. The villains were not that great imo, which sucks because SM's villains are my favorite out of any superhero's. I enjoyed both Peter and the villains in Homecoming.

 

This made me laugh a little. Tom Holland on Spider-Man Poster: 'That is Actually Me Asleep'

 

Friendly reminder that Peter's spider-sense protects his secret identity from prying eyes. (From Mark Millar and Terry Dodson's Marvel Knights Spider-Man #1.)

 

i havent seen asm2 but no way is it worse than sm3

 

They're both very awful.

 

ASM2 just needs an edit

 

I don't get the claim that ASM2 is close to being good and could be made good with editing. Electro is severely flawed. Harry Osborne is severely flawed. I know people like Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone because they're pretty people and good actors who have good chemistry, but I honestly think they're one of the most toxic relationships I've ever seen in a superhero movie.

 

I mean, they have the least cohesive plots, but ASM2 still has the most perfect web-slinging moments by far. And, literally every Spider-Man film thus far is inconsistent in one way or another, so the strong narrative backbone of that film getting bent and buried by pointless subplots doesn't bother me so much.

I, for one, like the very first Spider-Man the least out of them all, though I only let SM3 beat it by a hair 'cause I have a soft spot for that goofy pile of trash, lol. SM's biggest crime is just that it's so dang boring and has nothing to offer me in 2017 that another Spidey film can't do better. It doesn't have as many egregious mistakes as other films, but it has no personality or charm outside of nostalgia for its cultural significance upon initial release. [Insert rant about how horrible Tobey Maguire was here.]

 

I'd disagree that it has no personality. Raimi's filmmaking is super kinetic and stylized. Willem Dafoe's performance alone imbibes the film with identifiable character. There was nothing like it at the time. I don't think the first Raimi Spider-Man is great, I think it's okay, and get why if you can't get onboard with Maguire or Raimi why one wouldn't be into it. But it's very much a Raimi film.

I wouldn't debate that ASM2 has some super great actual moments of Spider-Man in costume doing Spider-Man things. But those aren't the narrative backbone, those are nice moments within the narrative. The narrative is Peter's secret agent parents, Electro, Harry Osborne, and his relationship with Gwen. All of that is atrocious and unsalvageable as it's presented in the film.

 

The SM1 scenes of New Yorkers describing the Spider-Man myth in talking heads is so great. And JK Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson is probably my favorite singular thing in any Spider-Man movie made so far.

 

ASM2 has a ton of great shots that make for good trailer moments, it's just not a good movie.

 

The narrative backbone of ASM2 is Peter trying to have everything at once and failing. It's a classic case of being Spidey derailing what Peter wants out of his life, but instead of him quitting one or the other, he this time refuses to choose until everything around him quite literally falls apart. It's a compelling core story about learning the hard way that you're not in control and can't have everything; that core simply gets smothered under the weight of unnecessary subplots and world building.

If I were to recut the film, I'd take out a lot of the scenes with Max Dillon, May's small side plot, half of the stuff with Peter's parents, maybe some other stuff. Then I'd put back in some deleted moments with Gwen and with Harry, since those are the only subplots that matter to the main plot with Peter.

There's a cool deleted moment, for example, where Peter walks into Oscorp to see Harry as Gwen walks out without them seeing each other, which is a subtle illustration of how they're each living their own lives that almost connect but just don't quite work. That corny Philip Philips sequence also originally also showed Gwen in her room; they also originally showed Gwen being told she got accepted.

With some refining to better demonstrate Gwen's perspective (so she seems less like Peter's prize and more like a costar) and Harry's while also removing away May's, Max's, and Richard Parker's (which aren't bad but are distracting and make everything seem more cluttered), ASM2 would have been a far better received film.


(As for SM's personality, saying it has none might be hyperbolic, but it certainly has less than its sequels did, thus it being the last one I'd wanna revisit.)

 

I'm glad Infinity War will show off Peter's spider-sense.

 

I'm glad Spider-Man is a thing

 

I re-watched the first Tobey Spider-Man a week ago and Green Goblin bugged me. Like, how was Norman Osborn not immediately caught and arrested for murdering that scientist? And then he killed all of the board members from his company and he still showed up for dinner with Aunt May. Apparently there are no homicide detectives in Raimi's New York.

 

Or the fact that Peter can't recognize the voice of his best friend's father who talks to him essentially every fight.

 

Right?! Overall I still like it, but that was tough to overlook. I remember watching the DVD repeatedly and my brother and I would act out the fight scenes. He'd catch my fist and go "impressive!" As he kicked me back. Good times.

 

I think the worst part of the first one is they got an amazing actor to play Goblin and covered his face the whole time. He is a master at doing facial expressions!

 

The worst part of all 3 Raimi films was the casting of Peter and MJ, but yeah, the costume design for Green Goblin was the next worst part. Not all comic book designs work on the big screen, but the Power Ranger helmet was a bad "update."

 

Kirsten Dunst is one of the best actresses in the world. The worst part of the Raimi movies is how underwritten she is. Or the overly masculine perspective on her. That hinders her more than the actress.

 

I was underwhelmed with her in the Raimi films, but she wasn't really given much to work with. I was blown away by her performance in Fargo though.