Spider-Man: Homecoming (July 7, 2017) Movie • Page 70

I really hope we get more Hannibal in the sequel.

 

Where is this shown in the movie? His relationship with Aunt May doesn't get 1/10th the screen time Garfield and May did, and there's very little bonding between the two of them, let alone a shared pain or a sense of responsibility back and forth from each. That came across really well in with Sally and Garfield. She wants to (and feels like she must) parent, he thinks he needs to take care of her, and that vice versa plays out over and over again with a shared grief for Ben. In SM:H relationships with his friends is virtually the same for every single friend, and they don't lean into how he feels like he's letting them down by needing to be Spider-Man at all, instead they just forgive him with a line of dialog, and there's that one moment with the pool. When he leaves her at the dance, you should feel that on both sides of that friendship ... him and her. But, I didn't. You knew he was going to leave the entire time, and I never felt like she cared that much if he did anyway.

His Peter definitely was cracking joke after joke and playing for laughs as Peter. There's probably, minute for minute, more humor when he's out of the costume than when he's in it. There wasn't much of a switch between Peter/Spider-Man. It was just Tom's Peter, in the costume. And in the past there's a noticeable change. One could argue which works better and why, my argument's just that it showcases a lack of dynamics in this Peter.

I still find this criticism weird. One, because Garfield can act. Two, because Peter Parker is basically a model (and literally dates and does modeling in various comics), and lastly: Tom Holland is incredibly good looking. He's like picture perfect teen idol. Takes his shirt off and he's jacked. Perfect skin, quaffed hair, teeth, everything. If we're expecting something else from Peter, it should be a Liam James-ish actor, but Tom Holland is not remotely close to that.

 

He starts eating people

 

the way he treats his friends is not at all the same, hes got good chemistry with Ned and i like the time they had on screen together, i think they both nailed that "outcasts looking at everyone around them and wanting to be part of the crowd" thing, his relationship with Michelle was cute and had that highschool john hughes movie feel to it, his relationship with his aunt wasnt as prominent but i really liked the change in dynamic at the end with them, the pool moment is great but i think theres others like the party and near the end. plus his relationship with stark was great and i like the way they play off each other. his relationship with Toomes is the best part, i love how intimately close they kinda have to be due to certain circumstances and i love how they kinda awkwardly have to put on friendly faces to each other. that car scene was great.

sure he cracked a lot of jokes but i dont think thats all he did as SM. he had charm, he had moments of defeat, he had quips, he had heroic moments, he had a lot going on under the suit and it felt natural.

i didnt mean Garfield cant act or anything, hes the best part of The Social Network imo, i just think hes miscast as spiderman and the script he was given didnt help at all. sure there are times where peters been a model and dates them, ive read comics too! but thats not the peter parker i like the most and yes holland is very much a handsome model type but i think he has enough boyish charm and awkward stature to make it work.

again this is just my opinion im not knocking you for loving Garfield or anything i just like Holland a lot more

 

this isnt a perfect peter parker or spiderman at all btw but i do think holland is the best live action one weve had so far

 

Most iterations of Peter Parker's origins, he starts out as an outcast, awkward dweeb. Andrew Garfield is James Dean from the first second he's onscreen. It's hard to sell personal growth when Garfield plays Parker as basically the same over the course of two movies. Skateboarding through school, flirting, and standing up against bullies all before he's ever bitten makes it hard to show just how much change he goes through once he becomes Spider-Man.

I know I'm not changing anyone's mind on Maguire's performance. But I think there's clear depth to his character, he sells each part of his arc, going from that complete dork to someone who finally has the confidence to talk to MJ to being a functional adult to losing his powers and going back to being a collegiate science major nerd and then having to give it all up again, Maguire feels like a person who goes through a lot from beat to beat.

Holland was very good and I can see why people like him and this movie so much. I wish there were more to his relationships and dynamics, I wish the fallout to the sacrifices he makes socially due to his Spider-Man responsibilities weighed heavier on the drama of the movie, but Holland is a very good version of Peter Parker onscreen. He's a good looking kid, but he plays Parker like someone who can't operate socially with most people. His earnestness and desires manifested in a way that felt realistically like something he wants but isn't capable of achieving, both because of his nature as a 15 year old science dork and because of his dual identity.

 

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I think Peter needed Ben's death in this film, especially for the rubble scene and to round him out as a character.

I know, I know.

 

Yeah I think that's where I'm at too. I can't claim that any of the other 5 movies are better than Homecoming, and yet Homecoming is not technically a great movie.

 

No more origin stories for Spider-Man! Civil War was a great introduction to Spidey for those of us with origin fatigue.

 

I know. I was loathe to the idea of an origin story before seeing it BUT after seeing it. Peter needed the weight of Ben's death.

 

They could have done that without starting at the beginning. Show us that PP is man of the house now and struggling at it.

 

I don't necessarily think they needed to show it or have it in the movie, but it did feel weird to not acknowledge it at all. For all we know with these two movies: it didn't happen in the MCU (and we have no idea about his parents either). I think that it's ok to not have to show that or do anything like that ... but no acknowledgement of such an important moment in Peter and May's life ... was strange to me. It basically removed and supplanted Peter's entire reasoning for wanting to be a super-hero and felt strange in some moments. Like, not even a casual pause when you're going off to your first dance to wish Ben was there to see it? I dunno, it felt missing ... which isn't to say they needed to show us all of it again, we know the the story, but just writing around it left a noticeable hole.

 

yeah something like this. they mentioned it like once maybe? in a passing comment and it just feels missing. as Jason said peter's whole reasoning behind being a good person and becoming a superhero is missing entirely.

 

It would also explain why May was overprotective a bit

 

yeah i do agree with this. i know its implied in Civil War but i wish there was like, a scene of Peter looking at a photo of Ben or something. Garfield listening to Bens last message to him over and over was a great scene in ASM

 

Maybe the sequel will lean on "with great power" when Peter finally comes to terms with his powers and what he can do.

 

This is where I disagree. I came away from both viewings thinking the way he interacted with everyone was virtually the exact same with a few small tweaks. He was charming, quick witted, and funny. I am racking my brain for where he showed any other dynamics as a character and I can think of maybe two in the movie? Beside that it was this specific fast talking funny kid. Which is fine! I liked it! I'm just talking about how I wanted more depth in who Peter is. (See animated Spectacular Spider-Man for a place I think they do this really well with a high-school Peter.)

I don't see where the relationship with Michelle had any "John Hughes-ness" to it. They had few moments together on the screen. Peter and Liz had their relationship played up the entire movie and the "MJ" stuff felt almost tacked on at the end. I get what they were going for with the outcasts thing, and it kinda worked, but by and large it looked like Peter and Ned had a group of friends: the science club, and

I personally disliked that this was the main motivation, sucking up and fawning over Tony (who continues to be in the wrong on almost all his decisions). By the 10th time he was all whiny over it I kinda wanted to tell him to suck it up.

They have like 5 minutes on screen together. That was a really good scene, but I don't think I'd call those moments a "relationship."

What I'm saying is that there wasn't that big of a change from Peter to SM. He's still the same character we have seen without the mask, he just has the mask on now. That's the lack of dynamics I'm referring to. In other tellings, there's a clear difference in what the outside world sees of Peter Parker and Spider-Man. That didn't really exist here.

I'm just making an argument why he wasn't miscast and where the Garfield portrayal works well. I don't think you're knocking me at all, I'm simply arguing against the most common (and in my opinion flawed) reasons people don't like Garfield.

As for Peter himself, this version is a very different version than we've basically ever seen before. It's a combination of a variety of characters, some Peter from the comics, some decidedly not Peter. And, I contend that you could make very few changes and give the titular character of this movie the name Miles and it would work just as well (probably even better actually). To me that speaks of how this is an entirely different version of Peter Parker than we've ever seen before. From how he acts, to what his motivation is, to what his inner struggle is, to what being Spider-Man itself is all about and why he does it. That's a new Peter Parker, and I think worth looking at as such.

I don't see anything awkward about Tom Holland. I think he's every much "a model" as Garfield, if not more so inline with what teenagers like/dress like these days. He's central casting for that part, so I just can't agree with any argument about Garfield being too good looking as a reason why he's a bad Peter Parker. Cause Peter Parker is very good looking, and that trend continues with the MCU as well.

 

Yep. It was vaguely referred to when Peter told Ned/Ganke not to tell May about his identity because of "everything" she'd been through recently. And that's it. It just feels weird to sidestep it like this because we've seen the origin story in two separate series already. It leaves me feeling like there's a complete, well rounded version of Peter in a combination of all three that we've seen, but it's just out of our reach due to each series' respective studio needs to stay different from each other. I don't know.

 

Garfield nails everything.

 

Congratulations, all your comments are what I'll be thinking about if/when I see the movie! Hahaha

 

I am curious if they ever give him spider-sense, because just leaving that out while giving him a robot suit, I think is going to be the thing that bugs me the most out of MCU Spider-Man. A lot of the other stuff is just me arguing semantics and such of the character's new portrayal (like how I think Ned should be named Ganke, and Peter coulda been renamed Miles and it works just as well), but that specific thing: sense/suit, really has bigger ramifications on the character and who they are in the long run of these movies.

Anyone know what movie Holland is supposed to be in next for the MCU?

 

They said they'll probably add it later. I thought he already had it because he says his "senses were dialed to 11" in CW but it's weird that this movie just forgets about it. I think his next appearance will be Infinity War?

 

Since we don't have a clear timeline for when Ben died, I don't think Peter's carefree attitude was THAT out of place. You had a lot of instances of Peter missing out on life stuff due to responsibility stuff, and the original comics did flip flop a lot between Peter loving being Spidey and him hating it (often in the same issue). The gravity of Tony taking the suit off of him had, in my opinion, more weight because the prior sequences were so fun.

That defense aside, I do agree that avoiding Ben so much was a mistake. It would've been very easy and improved the film if there had been some conversation between Peter and May acknowledging Ben's absence. I know people harp on ASM for repeating the origin, but the comics often remind readers of that burden for a reason.

 

He's gonna be in Infinity War, I think for a similar screentime as Civil War

 

He's gonna be in Infinity War, and I think also Avengers 4. Both before the Homecoming sequel.

And yeah, the spider sense thing was frustrating. CW hinted at a cool application (not all that different from how ASM handled it) that also gave an excuse for the eyes, but then this film was all about the suit. I had a total nerd rage moment when the tracer was computerized instead of using his spider sense, lol.