Spider-Man: Homecoming (July 7, 2017) Movie • Page 38

(Ok, I'll wait a few more years.)

 

I don't think a few more years is going to make me not like it though

 

I enjoyed the visuals and action quite a bit. That characters, not so much. The American accent was distracting, and Strange's character felt like Tony Stark but less likable.

 

Doctor Strange is in my top 5 MCU films and, imo, the best when it comes to acting.

 

I liked it enough. Wasn't a fan of what they did with Dormammu Not even sure if I should spoiler tag that, but just to be safe

 

I don't get what the whole passage of time thing is supposed to mean, lol. For the past few years or so, pretty much all the Marvel films have had a mix of responses, and those responses (good, alright, or bad) have mostly held up as time went by. People who love each film have no problem expressing as much both immediately and later, and likewise for those who hate 'em.

For me personally, Doctor Strange was in certain ways quite flawed, particularly in the whitewashing and basic narrative structure, but it did just enough right for me to really enjoy it. The theme of the passage of time (and not just 'cause of the Time Stone, lol) was generally executed well, and the visuals were a treat. Also, as a man of faith, I really connected with how they handled Strange having his eyes opened to a world outside of the material world. I don't know that I'm necessarily hungry for a sequel (I'd be happier with Strange simply becoming a recurring character in other franchises, as long as he's not utilized as an overly simplistic solution to various problems), but I quite enjoyed the film that we got. It's probably generally a mid-tier MCU film for me right now, at the lower end of my top 10 if I made one.

 

This is maybe the best representation of how you talk about Marvel Studios, lol.

 

With virtually every Marvel movie (and quite a few others) there's a trend of massive overhyping and people saying they're the best movies ever, loudly... time passing ... and the consensus coming down on a more reasonable concord. It doesn't happen with the fanboys, but it definitely happens.

Took forever for people to finally talk rationally about Age of Ultron, we may finally be able to talk about how Civil War wasn't very good either ... maybe another year or so. Last time I got screamed at for pointing out all the plot holes. Time brings perspective and more context around the films. The "oh, yeah, that wasn't as good as I thought it was" sets in ... and that takes time. I get it.

 

(And the third act of Doctor Strange was a disaster and the action scenes were handled with the care of a surgeon dropout.)

 

But none of those compare with how flawed and laughable The Amazing Spiderman 2 is, so it's not hard to see why the majority of people love the Marvel films and why someone who loves TMS2 doesn't get it

 

I haven't really seen much of a shift in opinion on any of their films but I also don't talk about them online very much.

 

I'd take TASM2 over the majority of the MCU movies honestly.

 

As the person that's been yelled at after the release of all of them when I "meh" about them ... and then the subsequent "oh, yeah, you were right" years later .... I see it. The die-hards keep their opinions, but the general consensus definitely shifts.

I can talk about how awful Captain America 1 is now on a message board without someone wanting to skin me alive, so that's progress. (Hell, some even are with me that it's almost as big of a directorial failure as Snyder.)

 

I haven't seen any praising or criticizing of Age of Ultron on this site in the past year that wasn't also present in the thread for the movie on AP.net, and likewise for Twitter and my irl friend group. Not really that different of a ratio, either. Some warming up and some cooling down happened, but overall, the conversations now VERY closely resemble the ones back in spring/summer of 2015, with the same range of opinions and same general consensus with the same mix of enjoyment and disappointment.

The same is true for any MCU film I can think of post-Avengers (I didn't really pay the same level of attention before that, so can't comment on that period). I imagine the opinions, both good and bad, of Civil War will continue to roughly resemble what they were before, too. In every discussion of Marvel Studios, you get the same people loving the same films, with some mocking of those who are "too critical," and you also get the same people hating the same films, with some mocking of those who are "not critical enough."

I'm pretty sure the same can be said about the recent Star Wars films, too, as well as non-MCU comic book films, and any blockbusters that have been discussed. If there's a Star Wars thread, the same people who were initially highly critical of The Force Awakens generally still are, and the same people love it. If there's a DC thread, the same people who were initially highly critical of BvS generally still are, and the same people love it. If there's a new Christopher Nolan film, that thread looks very similar to his last couple films' threads. Every Spider-Man discussion has the same general mix of opinions on the various adaptations we've gotten thus far.

 

It might also be that more people who don't care as much see them too. Like when the film first comes out I think the majority of people seeing it will be fans, people who aren't as into them might not watch until a year or two later so in time the general consensus could shift that way even if no one changes their mind about it.

I've never really liked Cap 1.

 

Then I'd argue a pretty strong case of confirmation bias on your behalf, because you want that to be true. The ratios have definitely shifted from when that movie came out and it was declared the greatest superhero film of all time and shot up rankings faster than a Doctor Strange deus ex machina plot fix. I'm not saying those opinions weren't there (I, myself, gave many of them!), I'm saying there was a shift in the response and general consensus around the movie.

Come on, no they don't ... that AP.net thread was out-of-control with praise and it ran anyone that said anything even remotely negative about the movie out of it! Haha, come on ... it's not like I don't remember these things. I'd love to pull historical rating data from a site like IMDB or Letterboxd and see if the trendline is like I expect, but I can speak in certainty about the thread on AP.net and the calming of the general consensus at the time.

I can find all sorts of "re-watched this, not as good as I remember" posts about Civil War. There's also people that end up liking the films better on re-watches ... these feelings shift one way or another on almost all art over time all around a median ... and I think the extreme hyperbole boosts the movies higher in a ranking early, and then they settle in over time as more people see them, see them again, and more data comes out. This is something we see happen, in the data, on movie review sites ... it's why you see some spikes upon release for certain movies and then the average over time brings it back down. Not only do people's own opinions change in both directions, the general consensus often changes with time as well.

I'd argue this happens even more frequently with blockbusters (see: the souring on Avatar with time).

Again, my argument isn't about the fanboys or die-hards that get their minds made up and dig in ... I still will get push back by the same small group of people I expect (this very conversation being proof of that), but my argument is not based around those die-hards, it's about the softening of hyperbole, and general consensus, that comes with time and space. It's that there's a correlation between the release of a movie and when it's "safer" to talk about its negative qualities. I think it's fairly obvious that the passage of time leads to more conducive environments for talking negatively about certain films, for a plethora of reasons that seem obvious to me.

 

Definitely part of it as well.

 

I don't consider myself a fanboy really, more casual than anything. CA1, Thor 2 were both not good. Ultron was okay, not my favorite but still solid. Civil War was fun, I went in with pretty low expectations honestly and enjoyed it too.

 

I remember having one of the stronger positive opinions of Age of Ultron after it came out, and still having some notable complaints right out of the gate. I remember nearly everyone at least agreeing out of the gate that it wasn't as good as Avengers, which makes it impossible for "the greatest superhero film of all time" to have had literally any traction at any point after the film came out, lol.

And, confirmation bias is a silly thing to accuse me of when I can just as easily accuse you of the same thing, lol, and honestly thought about it. All Tims and all Jasons and all of everyone else is 100% the same amount of susceptible to that. It has to go both ways.

I think what @SpyKi said about the correlation between who's gonna see a film fastest and who's gonna like it most is a major factor. All blockbusters have that effect.

At the end of the day, Jason, the only thing I really push back on is the idea that MCU fans are somehow different from Star Wars fans, DCEU fans, or fans of any other major film franchise/brand/etc. I can accuse you of being predictable when it comes to Marvel films, just like you have others for recent Star Wars films. There's nothing magical that Marvel fans need to "admit" or whatever. Every major brand has passionate fans, casual fans, initial hype, haters, those who are ambivalent, etc. That Marvel fans are somehow different, even though literally every Marvel film I've discussed on Chorus/AP has had plenty of discussion of their faults right out of the gate from IM3 through Doctor Strange, is just weird.

But, people can love, hate, and/or be ambivalent about whatever they want, so oh well.

 

I try and love as much as possible.

 

You could, but I think the data available supports my argument. Watching the spikes and fade of IMDB ratings being one example.

I never said it was just MCU fans. I make the exact point that they're the same in my last post in regard to "blockbusters" ... I said the same thing about Jurassic World and the reaction a few days ago ... and my post itself references Avatar.

Why would this be an accusation? I've said it myself about myself. Of course I'm predicable given a set of inputs, and therefore what the likely output will be given a similar input. If Marvel keeps releasing pretty much the exact same movies over and over again, you're gonna get the same response from me. (Their lack of diversity, uniqueness, or originality [going so far as to stamp out directors who aim for it] has always been one of my big complaints.)

 

"Accuse" wasn't the right word, but whatever. I'm totally for you and others voicing your complaints of Marvel Studios films, just like I love voicing my complaints of certain films. The only times I've pushed back are when you've said weird things about people not "admitting" the flaws in Marvel films (as if that doesn't happen with each film shortly after release), as if they're a different brand from fans of other similarly popular properties.

And, yeah, criticizing Marvel films for lack of diversity is an area where you'll always have a friend in me! lol. My excitement for the animated Miles Morales film, which will be better than any MCU Miles Morales film could've been, still doesn't make me forget how terrible a wasted opportunity that was. Give me an Avengers film with Sam Wilson Captain America, Monica Rambeau, and Shang-Chi on the team!

 

I don't think anyone cmb will ever be as bad as Batman & Robin.

 

I'd rather watch that than Catwoman honestly