Spider-Man: Homecoming (July 7, 2017) Movie • Page 30

The heart of the movie is Peter wanting to have everything but not being able to balance it all. It's a movie about lack of control. And I do not see how you could remotely say anything with Gwen is painted as her fault, lol.

The 90s animated series was the origin of my Spider-Man fandom. That, and then comics in the 90s. That's probably why I value college and married Peter over high school Peter.

I dunno if you keep up with comics, but the current series Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows by Gerry Conway is so good. It's set in a world where Peter and MJ are married and have a young daughter, and they fight crime together. So good.

 

I feel like Holland is going to be the best representation of the character of the three. But something about Garfield felt less sympathetic.

 

The literal lines of dialogue.

• Gwen Stacy: I'm coming with you.
• Peter Parker: Gwen, you're not coming with me.
• Gwen Stacy: Yes, I am.
• Peter Parker: Gwen, it's too dangerous.
• Gwen Stacy: I'm coming with you. I've seen the grid specs and I know how to reset the entire system.
• Peter Parker: Gwen!
• Gwen Stacy: I'm coming with you! You know that you need me...! [Peter puts his hand in front of her mouth to stop her talking] No, you're not. [Gwen carries on protesting as his hand still covers her mouth]
• Peter Parker: Okay, okay, okay. You're coming with me! Shut the thing. [as Gwen goes to close the bonnet Peter webs her hand to the car bonnet] Sorry! I love you! Don't hate me! [Peter swings away]
• Gwen Stacy: Peter!

...

• Peter Parker: You can't be here right now. I'm not messing around. You can't be here right now! This insane!
• Gwen Stacy: Okay, guess what? Nobody makes my decisions for me! Alright? Nobody! This is my choice! Okay? My choice.

 

Yeah. The point is that it's her choice to put herself in danger, not his. He can't keep everything and everyone in safe boxes. She knows the risk but still makes her own choice, and if she hadn't, Peter wouldn't have beaten Electro. I didn't know that putting yourself in danger, helping to save the day, and then dying meant you did something wrong.

 

Have you watched it recently? Hahaha, it's on SPEED. I tried a few episodes and I couldn't follow it. It was like I needed all the sugar cereal being sold to even focus correctly on it.

My introduction was the 80's series. I watched "The Incredible Shrinking Spider-Man" episode at least a thousand times. I had it on VHS and would just watch it over and over again.

I've gone back and re-watched a lot of this 80s series, and I actually like it. Haha.

Interesting. Miles is the only Spidey book I'm current on. I've been meaning to look into ASM again.

 

The 90s cartoon series was the only show I watched as a kid that I remember my mom being interested in. No idea how it holds up

 

She didn't do anything wrong. But the movie goes out of its way to make her complicit in her own death. That's the message the film is literally saying: she chose to be here, so whatever happens next is because of her. It doesn't have enough going for it to read as anything more than another fridging. Heck, it would have been a more affecting ending if instead of dying, she just broke up with him, sick of him waffling between wanting to be with her and not, following her around the city, never able to commit to being with her or not. That would be more emotional state to see that Peter in than her death by the hands of a villain we barely know.

Partially this comes from the way the whole movie treats Gwen. Peter literally covers her mouth with his hand to quiet her, webs her in place, doesn't respond to any of her heartfelt concerns with anything but posturing and making out. It's the most empty movie romance I've maybe ever seen. If you look at the line-to-line dialogue, it's pure surface. It's one of the most maddening things about those movies.

 

(While talking animated though I think The Spectacular Spider-Man was the best series.)

 

How do you get from her making the choice herself ... to fridging?

She makes the choice, Peter knows this, but blames himself for her death anyway.

 

Because a female character dies to further a male character's story.

 

I'd call this specific instance a Lost Lenore before a fridging.

 

We can recognize it as both, particularly since it happens disproportionately to women.

 

Wait, if I remember right you were the one that said Gwen Stacey should live, right?

That woulda been some fun fan backlash to witness.

 

I watched some episodes with my nephews the other day, lol. It's definitely very high-speed, way more than I remembered, but it had a nice, full world and a good depiction of Peter. I loved his relationship with Aunt May, which is maybe a funny thing to point out, lol. But yeah, I wouldn't rewatch it on my own. Like you said, Spectacular Spider-Man is the best Spidey cartoon.

If you wanna get back into the groove of in-continuity Peter, a second series is launching in I think June. Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man is gonna be written by Chip Zdarsky and illustrated by Adam Kubert. Looks like it's gonna be a great, classic-feeling series.

 

I said it above, yeah think it would have more interesting story possibilities if she'd lived.

What backlash? Would fans have been mad at not seeing an adaptation of the Death of Gwen Stacy?

 

Yes. It's seen by many as one of the most iconic and important moments in comics (and in Peter's life).

 

Can't wait for that. Been loving Zdarsky's Star Lord, and of course Sex Criminals. Liked the first issue of his Howard the Duck but didn't keep up.

 

Looks like Star Lord is ending after one arc, which makes me glad I trade-waited. Zdarsky and Anka really is a great duo, though. Love how Anka draws Peter Quill.

 

I know that. But they didn't do a good job adapting it anyway, Garfield and Stone's chemistry is a lot of people's favorite parts of those movies, why kill her off? Lots more story possibilities if she's alive. She can interact with Mary Jane, hell, if the movie had done better they could have potentially had a Spider-Gwen, if they took some liberties with comic continuity.

 

I wasn't commenting on if they did it well or not, just on the fan backlash if she survives that specific moment. I don't disagree there could have been more movies with her as well (except the rumors that she wanted out of the role). (But I woulda cast her as Mary Jane and skipped the Gwen years all together. But that's just me.)

What? Spider-Gwen would make no sense in that world. Give her her own movie and the awesome origin story and world she has. I'm tired of the cranking it all in method.

 

Killing Gwen before introducing MJ was my least favorite creative choice. I want a multi-film story with the whole college Peter cast.

If they had continued that franchise, I would've liked to see Gwen return in a modified Clone Saga story. None of the convoluted aspects, just the Gwen clone and one Peter clone, which could be an amalgamation of Kaine and Ben Reilly. Then reveal late in the film that Gwen was given powers, too, and she can become a new version of Spider-Gwen.

 

The clone saga is built for a bad WB TV series. heh.

 

In the animated Miles film's sequel, they should adapt a take on Spider-Men, but with Spider-Gwen instead of 616 Spidey. Animated Spider-Gwen would be the best.

And I love Stone as Gwen, but for most of canon, that character is definitely interesting only 'cause she died and is overly-romanticized. (Well, and her dynamic with MJ back in the day.) So, yeah, I can agree that she should've been MJ, lol. But, gotta separate from the last franchise, I guess.

 

The Clone Saga is closer to a good story than people realize, but it failed for a variety of behind-the-scenes reasons. I love this video:

 

The clone stuff is where I lost interest in the comics back in the day