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Spider-Man: Far From Home (Jon Watts, July 2, 2019) Movie • Page 71

Discussion in 'Entertainment Forum' started by GBlades, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Oskarr Dec 4, 2020
    (Last edited: Dec 4, 2020)
    Oskarr

    Needled 24/7

    I don't mind a Spider-Verse movie down the line (maybe even as its own movie) but this Spider-Man 3 is not the place to do it.
     
  2. LessThanTrevor

    Trusted Prestigious

    I just want the Conor Oberst Peter Parker to appear again dancing.
     
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  3. justin.

    請叫我賴總統 Supporter

    If this happens it's without a doubt a decision that Sony made. People forget that Sony plans the party while Marvel pays for and advertises the party. Some say Marvel Studios doesn't know how to use the property, but Sony wrote Homecoming and Far From Home. The only Marvel Studios takes we have are Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.

    And Sony is gonna Sony. I don't have faith in Jon Watts handling these many characters but we'll at least get a few good fan service moments, which is what this film basically is.
     
    Oskarr likes this.
  4. Tim

    grateful all the fucking time Supporter

    Somebody likes a decision for a Marvel/Sony film: “Thank you, Kevin Feige!”

    Somebody doesn’t like a decision for a Marvel/Sony film: “Damn you, Sony!”

    :spidey4:
     
  5. oakhurst

    Trusted Supporter

    I mean one studio spends years building a story while one studio has shown twice that they’ll overstuff a film just because.
     
  6. Tim

    grateful all the fucking time Supporter

    The story-derailing universe building of Iron Man 2 & Age of Ultron would like to have a word.

    Also, these conversations always conveniently forget that Into the Spider-Verse exist. (As well as the classic Spider-Man 2, plus the underrated Amazing Spider-Man & Venom which both hold their ground quite well against much of Marvel Studios’ output... but, I feel like everyone knows where each other stands on Venom at this point.)

    It’s just both hilarious & depressing to me that so many people stan the Disney brand this hard.
     
  7. justin.

    請叫我賴總統 Supporter

    Into the Spider-Verse worked largely because of Phil Lord and Christopher Miller. They cared about the project. If you look at most of Sony's other Spider-Man films you won't see that.

    No one is attempting to "stan" Disney. I'm stating who is and isn't in creative control when it comes to Spidey in the MCU. If stating the hard facts is seen as me wearing a Micky Mouse shirt then I don't know what to tell you.
     
  8. oakhurst

    Trusted Supporter

    I enjoy Raimi’s Spider-Man films more than 90% of the MCU, but look at what Sony did with Spider-Man 3 and Amazing Spider-Man 2. You had the directors, producers and actors talk about studio interference by wanting to put too many things into one film. I’ve never heard that in the MCU. They know to take their time and not rush into a story. So if this film rushes into a live action spiderverse, then yes, I will assume it was Sony that pushed for it.
     
  9. oakhurst

    Trusted Supporter

    I also don’t think including those characters is a bad thing. It could work and I’m hoping it does.
     
  10. Tim

    grateful all the fucking time Supporter

    What are these “hard facts” based on? ‘Cause I’ve never seen the exact ratio of creative control defined, & all evidence I’ve seen points pretty clearly to Marvel Studios being a significant presence.

    You’ve never heard that in the MCU? Seriously? Come on.

    Joss Whedon famously had the exact kind of experience you’re describing when making Age of Ultron, particularly around the Thanos, Thor, Infinity Stones stuff. His burnout with the whole Marvel machine is well documented, & I’d argue even bled into how he wrote a lot of the characters in the film. Which, now that we know he’s a shitty person, I have less sympathy for him, but it’s still a thing that happened, very publicly.

    Also, Shane Black is on record saying that someone (I think probably Perlmutter, not Feige) meddled in Iron Man 3, specifically keeping him from having a female villain. Also, Edgar Wright leaving Ant-Man after almost a decade of on-and-off work on it. Also, Scott Derrickson stepping away (seemingly amicably?) from Strange 2.
     
  11. oakhurst

    Trusted Supporter

    Joss pushed for a lot of what was in Age of Ultron. I’ve never read where Feige had Joss force something into that film. I’ve actually read the opposite like Feige telling Joss no to including Captain Marvel so they could save her for a future film/story. Perlmutter didn’t want a female villain which isn’t the same as Sony pushing to include multiple stories into one film. Perlmutter was also let go immediately afterwards because Feige didn’t want him around anymore. Edgar leaving because of creative differences, as well as Scott, also doesn’t equal to the studio pushing to include too many stories into one film like Sony has done.
     
  12. Tim

    grateful all the fucking time Supporter

    Whedon went into Avengers 2 wanting to make a more personal story, instead of the same thing again but bigger. And, at the back end, he fought to edit it down to shorter than the first one. He didn’t want so much going on in it, but it ended up no less bloated story-wise than any of the Sony films people talk about.

    The whole Thor thing is the biggest part of this. Whedon’s thrown in diplomatic comments here & there amidst his obvious exhaustion, but he’s on record saying that Thor subplot got out of hand. He wanted to cut it, after trying a few things that didn’t work, but the studio outright told him if he did, they’d also cut the farm stuff (aka the best stuff in the film). The awkward bit of it we got was the an attempt to fix that mandated bloat in the edit, not unlike what ASM2 experienced.

    (Which, again, my sympathy for Joss on a personal level is low knowing that he repeatedly cheated on his wife on sets & blamed the women for his affairs. Fuck him. But, it’s still one of our best case studies of working in the Marvel Studios system.)
     
  13. Tim

    grateful all the fucking time Supporter

    Also, Edgar Wright said he wanted his Ant-Man to start more standalone before connecting to other characters in future movies. And, the final film ended up having Falcon in it & touching on the Avengers in a few ways. So, I don’t know what you call that.
     
  14. oakhurst

    Trusted Supporter

    I still haven’t seen anything showing Joss isn’t the one that wanted Age of Ultron bloated. He’s credited as the sole writer. I haven’t seen any interview where Joss said he wanted less but was pushed to include more. I’ll have read made it seem like he wanted everything in there.
     
  15. Tim

    grateful all the fucking time Supporter

    “With the cave, they pointed a gun at the farm’s head and 'Give us the cave'. They got the farm. In a civilised way – I respect these guys, but that’s when it got really unpleasant.”

    Source: https://collider.com/avengers-age-of-ultron-production-problems-explained-joss-whedon/

    I’m not a fan of Collider, but this rundown of the whole process is pretty helpful in understanding the context. That quote I pulled was surrounded by some diplomatic speak (unsurprisingly, since it’s from the month the film came out; see Fant4stic for how badmouthing your studio film too directly during its release can get you in trouble). But, that & other interviews from the time show an exhausted Whedon who couldn’t help sharing bits about how hard the process was. And, the zoomed out look shows what kinda movie he wanted to make at the start:

    “[It should be] smaller. More personal. More painful. By being the next thing that should happen to these characters, and not just a rehash of what seemed to work the first time. By having a theme that is completely fresh and organic to itself.”


    (Funny in retrospect considering how Whedon himself later became the same kinda outside influence on Zack Snyder’s Justice League. Though, in both cases Whedon wanted to scale back stuffed projects; the Avengers one was just dense for studio reasons, while Justice League was a filmmaker’s choice.)
     
  16. oakhurst

    Trusted Supporter

    Yeah I know that Marvel and the editors of the film wanted more of the scenes with Thor but Marvel didn’t force him to overstuff the film prior. Joss overstuffed the film and they were just like “hey, we gotta have room for this even though you filmed way too much other stuff”. Joss admits a couple times in the interview that he put too much in, even though he originally wanted the story to be smaller and more personal. Something that Joss changed himself. I don’t see it as on par with the producer of Spider-Man 3 telling Sam he had to include Venom into the script or the numerous things that Webb and Garfield complained about with Sony during the press tour of TAS2.
     
  17. PepsiOne

    Formerly PepsiOne Supporter

    It is almost the exact opposite of this lol. Sony pays for production and handles all promo and distribution and Marvel is making most of the creative decisions for both filmmakers and character. It may be different in their newer deal but I worked on the first two as well and that’s how it’s been to this point.
     
    Tim likes this.
  18. Tim

    grateful all the fucking time Supporter

    I can see an argument that Whedon & Marvel initially mutually decided to make the movie bigger. He, for one reason or another, was less directly bitter towards Marvel afterwards.

    But, personally, I find these pro-Marvel rose-colored glasses ridiculous (as someone who loves multiple Marvel Studios films).

    I cannot wrap my mind around seeing Whedon talk about that conflict, at the same time as the Edgar Wright Ant-Man issue, plus Iron Man 2’s bad story, Iron Man 3’s villain limitation, Derrickson leaving Strange 2, Patty Jenkins leaving Thor 2, Alan Taylor regretting doing Thor 2, etc... and then going, “yeah, if Spidey 3 does a multiverse story that doesn’t work, that’s obviously 100% on Sony, not the Disney-owned production company that famously fought to take further ownership of the franchise from Sony (& mostly won)!”

    Especially, again, when Spider-Verse exists. “But, that was because of Lord & Miller!” So, we agree that Sony isn’t some weird outlier, & that every big studio has both good & bad stories of studio-filmmaker relations. Cool.
     
  19. justin.

    請叫我賴總統 Supporter

    Didn’t Tom Rothman state that final authority lies with Sony? Basically Marvel can have inputs with creative directions and are encouraged to do, but at the end of the day Sony and Pascal make the final calls.

    I really would need to hear it come from Feige’s mouth that it was his desire to see Tobey and Andrew. That is a pure Sony fan-service decision that mostly benefits them and their legacy Spider-Man actors.
     
  20. oakhurst

    Trusted Supporter

    We’re talking about two different things it seems. I also already said a live action spider-verse isn’t necessarily a bad thing and I hope it turns out good, but I definitely see Sony being the ones that pushed for it. Sony is also the one that own the rights to a bunch of Spider-Man villains like doc ock who may be in this film. Sony had to green light that. Sony also owns the rights to the Tobey and Andrew Spider-Men, something else Sony had to green light and move forward with on their own which marvel wouldn’t have control over.
     
  21. PepsiOne

    Formerly PepsiOne Supporter

    I mean, yeah, Marvel can’t do anything without Sony’s sign-off, but they’re still making the vast majority of creative decisions and so far it’s made Sony billions of dollars so there’s not much they’re going to be pushing back on.
     
  22. youll be fine

    Trusted Supporter

    Jesus.
     
  23. Oskarr

    Needled 24/7

    I'll just say that most of the news/speculation surrounding Spider-Man since Far From Home has made me go "?????"
     
  24. justin.

    請叫我賴總統 Supporter

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  25. Henry

    Moderator Moderator