I think it's ridiculous to say TASM's Peter sexually assaults women. None of my female friends who enjoyed the movies said that they were uncomfortable with those scenes. If you think they come across as creepy then fair enough, but to make out there are scenes of sexual assault in TASM movies is absurd imo.
When ASM came out, I was still early in my process of becoming "woke" or whatever the heck you wanna call it, so I didn't notice the problematic shit as much as I do now. In spite of her agency a few times in the third act, she's definitely objectified a ton. (Probably wouldn't use the phrase "sexual harassment," though? I dunno. I feel like talking about trash treatment of women w/out using the different terms synonymously is more effective praxis. Probably not a debate we should be the ones having, though.) As for ASM2, I remember you once saying it was worse than ASM in that, & man, I've grown to really disagree with that. ASM is probably the worst offender of all the Spidey films, but ASM2's misstep basically comes down to one line of dialogue from Peter that should've either been reworded or not framed as romantic. Between that one line & a few small scenes from Gwen's perspective being cut, the framing is a little off, but at the core, ASM2 respects Gwen a ton. I think it's the Spider-Man film that gives the romantic interest the most agency & most life not defined by Peter? (Hoping Zendaya's MJ can surpass that bar in the next one.)
I think ASM2 is more glaring to me because it takes great pains to express her agency and that she’s responsible for her own choices and the basic takeaway is that it got her killed. Peter either webs her mouth shut or literally webs her in place? Maybe both? All in the name of protecting her from danger and he ends up being proven right and I find those optics really ugly
I'm remembering us debating this specific point now, lol, & I still think you're reading the text wrong. Which, there's some sloppy dialogue & misguided editing, so fair enough. But, I don't think the film as a whole paints Peter as right. Between Harry's journey & Peter's various conflicts, it's all about making the best use of the time, knowing that the time is temporary either way. It's about not being so precious with your time that you waste it on feigned safety.
I wouldn’t say I’m misreading the text, I’d say there isn’t enough focus on those broader themes to inform the way it plays out. There was a way to do it, as you’ve gone over many times. Cut everything involving Peter’s parents and rewrite Harry so that he’s the primary villain the whole movie while cutting Electro, and write some meaningful scenes with Peter, Gwen, and even Aunt May, who can inform the themes having recently lost her husband, and it could work. But so much of Peter’s dad and Electro’s dumb plot lines (plus the smaller distractions of the plane scene and some other sidetracks) get in the way
I don't disagree with anything in this post. I just additionally would say that the film does not present Peter as being right. Especially since they play her speech after her death, in a way giving her the last word. I can see a case for the film being too messily constructed to make either of them right or wrong. And I can see a case for it explicitly framing Gwen as right. But, I just struggle to see how the film as a whole could possibly end on the note of Peter having been right all along. *shrug*
I will cede to your judgement since I respect you and don’t want to revisit the movie and parse through it lol I think the narrative move in ASM2 was to subvert expectations: Gwen doesn’t die. She survives the battle with electro and Harry, and Peter is thrilled, but she dumps him for not listening to her for like, the whole movie. She flies to Oxford, enter MJ/Felicia in movie 3
Just rewatched Homecoming and I still really enjoy it! Even if there are a lot of problems with Far From Home, I'm looking forward to hanging out with these characters again. Tom Holland's Peter Parker may not be comics accurate but he's a good kid who just wants to do the right thing regardless of what it means for him and his personal life and that's the kind of hero I want to root for.
Holland is my favorite actor in the role, but Garfield is the best Spider-Man if that makes any sense Just counting live action btw
This was super solid and fun. Man, I loved Jake Gyllenhaal as Mysterio. Joins Loki, Killmonger, and Thanos in the ranks of MCU villains I actually love. The whole vacation setting was fun. Tom Holland is great and whole supporting cast was really good. My biggest gripe is Peter and MJ’s romance. I like Zendaya a lot and the interpretation of her character, but I feel like there needed to be an entire movie between Homecoming and this to develop their friendship. She goes from being a jokey side character in the first who goes completely unnoticed by Peter and then suddenly he’s in love with her at the opening of this movie? Just felt forced. Like, “We suddenly established that this girl is MJ at the end of Homecoming so gotta quickly get these two together.” It just bugs me a bit. I really like both characters, their story just feels super thin.
I’d like the next one to lose the avengers layer. Really enjoy everything else about these movies. Less tech. Jets. And iron man worship.
Saw the movie again, loved it just as much haha. Maybe it’s because I haven’t read too much of the Spider-Man comics, outside of Peter Parker The Spectacular Spider-Man, but I really enjoy this version of Peter Parker. Sure I wish he had more financial problems, having a scene where he was struggling to pay for the class trip would have been cool. But I love how much this film emphasized Peters struggles of feeling like he needs to live up to Iron Man, while also wanting to be a normal kid. I’m super excited to see where they go after this movie. Captain Midnight is probably one of my favorite people to hear talk about Spider-Man. I share a lot of the same thoughts about the movie as he does.
There was apparently a scene of that in the movie that got cut for time. It's part of that "To-Do List" thing they're releasing with the DVD that has the restaurant fight scene and Peter getting his passport.
I still hold onto my opinion that Maguire was a good Spider-Man, Garfield a great Peter Parker, and Holland a fantastic mixture of the two. The film was great, the only character aspect is I wish Holland was more dorky and full of humorous quips instead of these short one-liners. Mysterio was great fun and the cameo at the end of the post credit scenes, although being a potential one-off, was well received. I hope to see more MJ romance, Zendaya killed it in this role and Happy was really in a good place.
I saw this last night, liked it a lot, but I agree - this kinda felt like it started in the middle of the movie
Saw this tonight. Liked it quite a bit but definitely not blown away. I’m pretty MCU/iron man fatigue’d. Mysterio was great though. Outside of spider-verse I have no idea what my favorite Spider-Man movie is which is kind of a bummer.