Spider-Man: Far From Home (Jon Watts, July 2, 2019) Movie • Page 42

I miss the first two Raimi movies for the fact that they were about Spider-Man and Spider-Man alone. I mean how long were the swinging scenes? I remember Spider-Man 2 closed with maybe two full minutes of just swinging?

Marvel gave us five minutes of drone strike on Brad but when it comes to those intimate moments... almost nothing. I want a Spidey film with the same level of introspection and contemplation as GotG Vol. II. Yondu was treated with more respect than Spider-Man.

I appreciate him interacting with other characters, but it didn't feel cool or subtle like when Daredevil or Black Cat showed up in those old Playstation games. It almost felt like a two-hour post-credits scene to Endgame. And I love Endgame. But I love Spider-Man. Ah well...

 

I actually love that aspect of how they interpreted the origin. They took the basic structure of selfish Peter who lets the thief go, who becomes vengeful Peter, who then learns to be a hero... And then, they shuffled & remixed it in a way that still felt faithful to the spirit of the origin. He creates the costume after Ben's death, the responsibility beyond one criminal doesn't sink in 'til he saves that kid in the car. But, the arc of evolving motivation remains the same.

 

Y'know, that is a good point. It is still pretty faithful to the buildup of his character in the beginning, it was just a little delayed. I would have liked it to be a little more immediately influenced by Ben's death, but it also does make sense for him to be so vengeful after what happens to his uncle while still adjusting to having super powers. And him saving the kid in the car really was an awesome scene.

 

Was that Bill Murray asleep at the hotel desk when they first check in? I swear it was.

 

On the Andrew Garfield note, something I've said before but came to believe even stronger after rewatching ASM2 last weekend:

The one thing that would've saved that film is an editor, empowered & unafraid to just go to town on that thing.

It's like they wrote & shot an over 3 hr Spider-Man film, with the complex plot & moving pieces of an Infinity War or Endgame. So many characters' perspectives included. And then, realizing they had too long a film, they went in to edit. But because they liked all their unfocused ideas & whims too much, they just trimmed every thread equally, instead of just removing the superfluous threads.

People claim it had too many villains, but that's just untrue. It has as many villains as The Dark Knight. Fewer than Into the Spider-Verse. What those films had that ASM2 lacked was a focused story. Effective use of characters' perspective.

To fix the film, you gotta add all the deleted scenes back in, look at all the material to work with, mapping out each character's journey. Then, decide which journey(s) are most important. Then, cut out EVERYTHING that doesn't fit those journeys.

So. Obviously Peter's story matters. Start with that. Anyone else? Well, you're telling the Death of Gwen Stacy, so if you want her to have agency & not just be a fridge footnote, you've gotta follow her perspective when away from Peter. And, since Harry is the one who causes her death, & is in a lot of Peter's scenes, keep as much of him as possible.

Knowing what not to cut, you can be vicious elsewhere. Electro? Sorry, Jamie Foxx, but anything not from Peter, Gwen, or Harry's perspective has gotta go. Aunt May? Bye, nursing subplot. Airplanes almost crashing? Bye. Richard Parker? Outside of Harry's clip & the subway clip, useless. Rhino is a non-character, a prop for Peter's story who doesn't eat up narrative oxygen, so he can stay; sorry, haters.

There are some final nips & tucks to make here & there afterwards. Like, cut the final Harry scene teasing the Six, making his last appearance that ambiguously maybe-dead shot as Gwen falls, showing that Peter lost both of 'em at once. And, trim out the subplot of Peter trying to make his web shooters withstand electricity. Shorten some scenes.

Just don't lose Peter, Gwen (a lot of moments from her perspective that take up basically no time were cut), or Harry (him confronting the Oscorp douches after becoming a Goblin matters more than the web shooters or planes).

 

Yeah I always thought the editing was very off in those films. Very awkward cuts between certain scenes and you really could tell certain things were just cut out entirely.

I need to rewatch them though, it's definitely been awhile

 

Were we really basing the effectiveness of an actor based on height? As if being short made any difference to Tom cruise? Please. There are so many tricks to fool people thinking actors are taller than they are.

 

I think it was his build too, which still doesn't make a ton of sense to me because I feel that adult Peter still has the build of a skinny acrobat in most iterations? He wasn't really a bulky dude, idk

 

It can still be tricked into looking almost anyway they want to, within reason. People need to use their imagination.

 

Nope, you're 100% strawmanning my point. Nowhere did I say that being short holds an actor back from being great at what they do. My point was that in the specific case of an older version of Spider-Man, I'd expect them to cast an actor who has a bigger frame than Tom Holland. I think if he was a tad taller it wouldn't be such an issue, but the combo of the two makes him look like a child next to other actors in the mcu. Obviously this isn't a problem at the moment because he's meant to be in high school, but I was saying that it'd be kind of ridiculous if they eventually have him play an adult version of the character. He's a very very young looking 23-year-old.

What Spider-Man comics are you reading? He's hench in most iterations. Definitely not Captain America or Thor sized, but still bigger than the average person, and certainly not "skinny".



Idk, I don't feel like I'm misrepresenting Spider-Man's physique here. The images above are fairly typical of how he has been drawn for decades, and Holland just wouldn't be able to pull it off if they ever progress beyond high school in these movies imo

 

ASM Peter never fully learns his lessons because he ends ASM1 with maybe my least favorite line in movie history: “the best promises are the ones you can’t keep” or whatever. After he promised dying Captain Stacy he would keep away from Gwen because it’s very clear anyone close to Peter is in danger.

I agree with a lot of those notes and edits of ASM2 would make it work a whole lot better but also think a lot of their dialogue needs rewriting. It’s all waffling on whether or not they should be together and Peter changes his mind like four or five times with no dramatic impetus. It bothers me.

 

I have now recorded my roundtable episode on this movie. Fun discussion and we were pretty much all on the same page as far as our enjoyment of it. Episode will be out on Tuesday and I'll post it here for those interested.

This and Homecoming were equally enjoyable for me. I've only seen this once though so that may change on multiple viewings. Holland is definitely my favorite live-action Spider-Man so far. Although, I will admit that I haven't really ever rewatched the other movies (but maybe that says enough about them at the same time). I do have rewatches planned for podcast purposes soon.

Also, just want to say that I'm not surprised that @Tim posts about Spidey a lot. Was a little surprised I made top 3 on any of the threads though haha.

 

I think the ASM films, if viewed as a single narrative, flow a lot better if you commit to Peter breaking up w/ Gwen in the first one, w/ Gwen calling Peter to hang out right before Electro surfaces then serving as their first conversation afterwards. I wouldn't wanna lose their earlier ASM2 interactions, but if I were making fan edits of both into Pt 1 & Pt 2 of one story, that'd flow a lot better. Either way, that ending has always felt tacked on to me. (If I were re-editing just ASM2 into an effective standalone film, though, I'd still keep a lot of that & just ignore that rough ASM ending, lol.)

Disagree on ASM2's flip flopping, though. His constant indecision is his conflict. The scene where he vents to Gwen before her interview I think communicates this really well.

 

SPIDER-MAN: FAR FROM HOME Swinging Toward Colossal $180M Opening; Expected To Top $500M By Sunday

Good chance of this being the first Spider-Man film to cross $1 billion.

 

It works better for me without that dumb last line in ASM1, which basically makes it the same ending as Raimi’s first Spider-Man. Starting ASM2 with him and Gwen on the rocks is a more interesting starting point to build on. Again, you’d need significant rewriting of their dialogue (mostly in the first half), and a lot more agency/perspective outside of Peter, as you’ve said. But cut Richard Parker, rewrite Harry’s “I need Spider-blood” plotline into a more straightforward “my dad is dying and it’s genetic but he was working on a super serum to counter it plot, and make him the villain throughout the whole movie instead of Electro (oh yeah, cut all of Electro), have scenes of Harry/Gwen/Peter all hanging out, from that foundation and other suggestions you’ve had (I agree that while Giamatti is making some bold choices, the character more or less works), ASM2 could be a really solid, maybe even good, movie. I still think Garfield is doing a bit too much James Dean-y brooding and posturing as Peter Parker, he can play it more earnest/dorky, I’ve seen him do it, but yeah his in-suit Spider-Man, especially in ASM2, is the best live action performance we’ve had of in-suit Spider-Man (Holland is a contender but his Stark-made suit annoys me and he hasn’t had a chance to really be a classic suited up Spidey)

 

THIS

 

I think this was probably my 4th or 5th favorite SM film

 

I think Spiderverse may have ruined Spider-Man movies for me

 

This sounds great. You should make a fan edit.

 

You don't know how much I've thought about doing so, lol. If I weren't too broke to get a worthy computer, & too busy figuring out life stuff to learn how to use the software, I 100% would.

I have multiple comic book movies I'd wanna fan edit, tbh. Half of 'em Spidey films, lol. Some w/ very minor edits, others chopped down into little short films.

 

its ruined all superhero movies

 

I forgot to mention I don’t know if every trailers before the movie were just like mine but it was funny that two of the five trailers before the movie were for animated movies with Tom Holland.

He is taking over.

 

I was gonna go there but didn't know the temperature of this thread lol

 

When I watch ASM2 it is like they forgot that good editing is an art form just like any other aspect of film-making. Anybody can just take a bunch of footage and chop it down so it is shorter. All of the things you pointed out and changes you would make only reinforce this idea.

If you ever did get around to it I would love to watch that version of the movie.

 

if I’m being real Venom and Spider-verse have both made me had a new appreciation for these kind of movies.