Say Anything Band • Page 6

I see what you mean about the ex-girlfriend thing, but I also think that speaks a lot for the genre itself at the time, which (I feel) has come a long way since the days if IDOTG or even the Self-Titled. I don't know howpointing fingers back at critics or disgruntled fans is a symptom of misogyny (especially being that a vast majority of online critics-even today-are male), but I agree that it can be taken as a sign of insecurity or immaturity.

I think if you can't pick up on the satire on a song as blatant as "Every Man Has a Molly," you're probably a lost cause, not because it's so brilliant that it's above criticism, but because it's so blatant that it's hard to miss (imo). I would say that applies to most of SA's "message" songs. I'd also argue that the story of Say Anything is one of redemption, and that the earlier ignorances are (for the most part) accompdated or addressed later either in his work or by Max's own public statements. I can see calling it poor or lazy satire. Max aure does love his strawman arguments, but to call it misogynistic because it isn't a high enough quality (which is how I'm reading your post) doesn't make sense to me. I'm not trying to attack or dismiss your opinion, but I'm having a difficult time following it.

 

Right, he's not the only one who did that, but his response to being one of those people is basically just "it's not real misogyny." The critic thing ties in because that's basically how he responds to criticism -- it's deflection as opposed to honest engagement, or maybe he's mostly just missing the point.
Max doesn't miss the mark everytime, you're right, but blatant satire is not equivalent to good satire. So that particular song is pretty mild in its clumsiness, though the over the top nature of it is pretty typical of even sincere songs from that time period imo. Self titled has songs with lines that are p bad -- Eloise, Crush'd coming to mind first. Again I'm not saying that this band is currently like this (though I'm not really familiar with the bands present day lyrics as much), I'm mostly saying that Max would rather push the blame elsewhere and dress it up to look differently than it is than accept responsibility for making mistakes in the past in the form of some misogynistic songs/lines in his songs peppered habitually through their early to mid albums.

 

I can see what you mean by some of this, although I don't see how a song poking fun at songs of its time being equally over the top as, say, "Cute Without the 'E'" makes its intent the same. I see how something like "Eloise" is very much one-sided, but aren't most break-up songs? Is Taylor Swift equally reprehensible for her trademark songs? Is Your Favorite Weapon by Brand New? Is there no room for exaggeration or even catharsis? I'd say he's apologetic as any artist needs to be (and I don't feel artists owe any explanation or apology based on social expectations). Honestly, his tweets can sometimes be so apologetic as a male that it's cringeworthy. I can see why his songwriting texhniques irk you as a listener, but to say they're morally reprehensible or an accusation like misogyny is a but strong, especially when "clumsiness" is accounted for. It feels to me like you're equating impression with intent, if that adds up at all.

 

yeah, most break up songs are, but I'd argue that they don't have to be. Still, you're right, they're not all equal, and that's not what I'm saying as my larger point.
My issue isn't with the songs themselves -- like you said, he's, for the most part, apologetic, and clumsiness is part of growing up and much like Brand New grew out of such clumsiness, I assume Max did too (like I said, not as familiar with recent work because I don't like it as much). My main issue is the way he paints those mistakes now, when he knows better: he downplays the shit out of it because he doesn't see it as "real" misogyny. The way he represents his old sexism is what bothers me because it's this weird mix of being socially conscious and not wanting to admit that maybe you've made mistakes too. It comes off as giving himself a pass because he wasn't hurling gendered insults or something else blatant.
So to reiterate: issue is with how max handles criticism of past lyrics and builds them up with his intent rather than what his lyrics ended up being/coming off as.

 

Alright, dude! Now I see where you're comin' from. I was honestly not sure before. I have an issue with how he writes off his old lyrics in general, especially because they were mostly so much superior to his latest lines (and I enjoy nu-Say). I don't know if I feel the same way about it in connection to sexism or misogyny, but I get where you're coming from and how he is often hypocritical in his politics.

 

I used to be a massive Say Anything fan. When I came out about 8 years ago, I was so depressed & scared I ended up having a suicide attempt which lead me to being stuck on the psych floor of a hospital for two weeks. Max and his music gave me hope and made me feel less alone with my mental health issues, etc. However, recently I have lost a lot of respect for him.....last year I drove 6 hours to see him play a show and he was so drunk for it he could barely stand up, didn't sing half the words, and almost passed out on stage multiple times- they ended up having to cut the set short because of it. His albums lately make me feel like he isn't even trying anymore- production is awful, lyrics are awful. I was excited for his Two Tongues tour this past fall, but he just ended up cancelling the whole tour at the last minute. He just doesn't seem to fully care anymore. I will always support him in some sort of way because he helped me through so much....but it is heart breaking to watch and follow him lately.

 

I do feel bad, dude seems to not be in a good place the last year or two.

 

he seems fine now. I was worried for a bit too

 

Yeah while the music isn't great Max does seem to be happier than he was during the early Hebrews area, which is a good thing.

 

I honestly think it's time to call it quits. I hate to say it, but after S\T I've only enjoyed a handful of songs. He also just says rediculous stuff now.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you, and at this point I dislike or am apathetic about more of their discography than I am stoked on it, but dude clearly still has a ton of fans, many who, inexplicably, like his current output. And besides that, this is literally his job. Maybe he should take a break, but idk seems kinda uncool for either of us to say that based on just not liking his stuff.
On the other hand, the ridiculous shit he says is enough for me to wish the band would get their act together, for sure

 

yeah i hate when people say that. music is his job, he's not gonna quit if he's making enough to support his family and continue to do what he loves.

on the other hand, after his performance the last time i saw them, i will happily not attend another say anything show haha. max was trashed.

 

Yeah, I left early the last time I saw them. He wasn't trashed but I clearly was not as stoked as the people around me. To be fair, it's tough to follow up MewithoutYou so

 

What's happened to this band? And what's been going on with Max aside from a few terrible releases?

 

Things are slowing down. I agree some of these previous posts and say he should probably take a break, and try some things outside of music. It worked for a lot of other artists. If he decides to wrap it up, I wish him well on his future endeavors.

 

I'm not saying he should stop making music. I'm saying hang up the SA name at least.

 

What's the difference though? That's his brand name. It's part of how he's able to still make money

 

I don't feel comfortable telling anyone they shouldn't carry on with making the art that makes them happy, that being said tho: I do think he should take some time to consider his moves with SA a little more so we don't get records like that last one

 

I wouldn't suggest he quit music or retire the SA name. He can do what he wants. But he's going to keep losing fans/credibility with these half assed awful sounding records. I'm super down with lo-fi noisey shit, but he's not pulling it off. But whatever. If he's happy doing this till it runs out, good for him. I've given up a while ago

 

I just think making music under Max Bemis and the Painful Splits is more fitting than turning in painful SA efforts. It is pretentious of me to tell an artist what to do. So I'll stop there.

I just miss the days of IDOTG/st

 

I was honestly totally happy with every Say Anything album until IDTII, despite the fact so many hate Anarch and Hebrews. But, there are a lot of people who actually like Max's output this year. I know a lot of people wanted Max to stop after Anarchy, but I really enjoy Anarchy and Hebrews so I'm glad he didn't. That being said, I hate IDTII, but I don't want Max to stop because even if I'm not a fan of what he puts out moving forward, others will be.

 

yeah im kinda torn. i do think he should maybe take some time off, a few years perhaps, and come back fresh. between SA and his family and two tongues and the song shops i think hes just stretched thin.

i gotta say, as someone who remembers when IARB was released, as someone who was clearly losing their mind and deep in depression, im glad hes in a much happier spot. ive been far too harsh on max the last couple years. hes not a bad person. naive? sure. pretentious? little bit. but not a bad guy at all. whatever he does i hope its whats best for him and not what he thinks the fans or critics want.

 

Just stop listening to him if you don't want to. Eventually he won't be making money either way

 

I don't think it is has grown on me a lot and Hebrews was great. I don't think Two Tongues Two will ever quite grow on me but I think Max is far from washed up. Also I definitely disagree with the people saying he is not caring about his work. However I feel like he probably cares too much about what others think about it

Also I've been to a ton of Say Anything shows and he's never been not able to perform due to being drunk or sick or whatever. I've seen videos where he has been though and while it's sad and I feel bad for anyone at the shows I would give him another shot because if you like their music he's definitely one of the best acts live I've seen

 

I completely understand why people who attended that show/ those shows(?) where Max was trashed would boycott Max or attending his concerts. I cannot imagine that level of disappointment or anger. It's embarrassing enough to watch the videos on YouTube.

I do think that Max cares, as much if not more than ever, and to some extent, that's why his more recent works have been so divisive for fans. Four Year Strong talked about how selling out would be to give fans what they want every time (when that Some Way, Shape, or Form album came out or whatever it was called) and I think it's mostly a valid point. He's also worked with groups like Museum Mouth, which have made somewhat of a trademark out of the rough-around-the-edges production style. I think he's an artist that always puts his all into what he does, and that doesn't always work out. I saw a post on Reddit that said "art isn't always for everyone all the time, but sometimes for some people, some of the time." I think that sort of applies to his work. I get people not enjoying albums like the last three, but I'm glad he's still working and seems healthy. I fear another breakdown, but I also have no clue ( or much interest) about his personal life.

I hope he's doing O.K. and would like him to take a few years off and put together a really stellar album. I enjoyed the last two a lot, but I think he could eclipse ...Is a Real Boy if he wanted to. I think he needs to grow up some more and move past the "punk" approach he's clung to since Anarchy and really take things in a new direction. I miss his Dylan-esque ambitions (not to imply he was at Dylan's quality or anything like that) in his songwriting from songs like "Yellow Cat/Red Cat."

Sorry for the novella. I think Max has a very strange career, to say the least, and I have a difficult time making sense of it sometimes.