Say Anything - Oliver Appropriate (January 25, 2019) Album • Page 10

It's definitely up there.

 

Wow lot of cheap stuff!

 

The MTV performances of IWTKYP, AWTGOL and Woe are still some of his best performances to date.

 

I really really like that Jeremy is on that song, cos lyrically it reminds me a lot of a snarkier and more sardonic (a Bemis version in other words) of Stay True by Thursday, and that song was about Touche Amore and Jeremy. full circle yo

 

The contrast between Max and Jeremy is the best thing about that song.

 

I cried listening to Lost My Touch the day Max made the announcement. I think it's one of Max's most vulnerable songs - no double entendres or buried meanings or "characters" to hide behind. Just really singing about what was on his mind regarding his legacy. In a lot of ways, that song should've probably signaled the end was coming sooner rather than later. And the sweet and gentle voice of Christie singing between Jeremy's harsh yelp/scream really drives home the bittersweet nature of the song. It stands as one of the very best Say Anything songs in my book.

 

I hated Lost My Touch when the album first came out but I've come around on it big time.

 

The guest spots on Hebrews made that album and I can't imagine anyone other than Jeremy fucking nailing that ending.

 

Been following this thread and don't really know what to say about everything regarding Oliver Appropriate. I'm glad Max is doing better and will be able to spend more time with family. Wish him peace and happiness, of course, but I'm also sad to hear he had such a rough time leading up to this. Say Anything is my favorite band and it'll be odd to think of it in the past tense or not look forward to an upcoming show from them. I'm just grateful for all the music I've loved and what it means to me.

I like "Daze." Didn't at first but it's grown on me. Usually SA singles after IDOTG come off way too obvious as singles for me, but this doesn't feel much like a single at all. It's pretty understated imo. I love the acoustic performance and that improved my impression of it. I just feel like it'll make much more sense in the context of an album for me. The story concept itself seems very operatic and over-the-top in a Max Bemis way. Didn't expect that ending from the synopsis. I'm certainly interested.

On the note of sexism in his lyrics, I feel it's quite obvious many of those lines were as much products of satire as they are of their time. "Property" is clearly criticizing misogyny and men who think they can own a woman. I always felt like "Every Man Has A Molly" is mocking the exact kind of song it is and how whiny they are. I truly don't believe they were written with any malice towards anyone except maybe people who unironically would say such things. In the goodbye statement, Max basically says as much (particularly in reference towards ...IARB).

 

re: “property,” one of the worst ways to criticize misogyny is to totally embody it as a joke

 

i know what he’s doing but there’s nothing interesting about the perspective he’s speaking from so it’s just a total failure of a song in my book

 

Yea the guest spots are definitely one of the things I love the most of it. A lot of the highlights come from them. And yea Jeremy’s verse could very well be my highlight of the album. It just feels so powerful. That and Aaron’s part in Push obviously.

 

I made it obvious I understand what property is going for. Doesn’t mean it’s successful in its execution. With dozens and dozens of bands in the scene unironically writing songs like that it’s irresponsible to write that song because casual fans and possibly even some really big fans could easily miss the irony in it and when the irony is removed you’ve just got a sexist ass song. And you can say that’s the fault of the listeners but like I said, it’s irresponsible to write it in the first place.

 

I would say the same exact thing about “honey revenge” by dance Gavin Dance, a song I actually love despite the lyrics, but one that has the same shortcomings and basic premise as property

 

However I think every man needs a Molly is perfect in taking the piss out of himself. “You god damn kids had best be gracious with the Merch money you spend” still makes me laugh my ass off to this day

 

Property is so over the top I think it's pretty impossible to miss the irony

 

Property is definitely ironic. It's also just a bad song, like the irony itself doesn't make the lyrics funny or the melody good. It's just a massive swing and a miss that kind of didn't deserve an album spot back then and has just aged worse and worse since. Ugh.

(And the s/t had some terrific b-sides too, like Narcissus? What a slapper)

 

yeah i mean irony or not shit like "If you do have to sell your body once or twice, or seven times... It'll be worth it." is in extremely bad taste

 

Ok guys I’ve decided to go back to Hebrews

I will report back tomorrow

 

Great find, thanks!

 

Honestly, the biggest problem with "Property" is that it's not that great a song lyrically or melodically.

I recall Max being very clear with his songwriting intentions as it being a "supervillain theme" when it first came out. I'm not going to judge him because some stupid kids didn't get that something like this was clear parody:

Sell you into bondage. Baby, I own you
You'll entertain all my friends dressed in the latest trendy frocks
You'd better tattoo that I am your patriarch
I ate your ambition. Soon you will fear the dark

 

who said anything about judging him as a person? i dont think hes sexist lol. the song itself can be steeped in sexist themes, ironic or not, without it saying anything about him as a person. at the end of the day its a poorly written song and irony or not its hard to listen to because of the lyrics.

 

Man, that new song really puts a fire in my peach pit

 

I’m a little late to this thread and it’s also a little late at night typing this so I hope my thoughts are coherent

I just got around to this single and I definitely agree with what someone said earlier about how it’s a good song but doesn’t quite feel like a single. I wonder if it was released first because it’s maybe one of the few songs that can be listened out of context of the whole narrative.

On the topic of the concept, I’ve been thinking about it for a few days and it’s definitely made me anxious because I’m currently just not in a place where a gay guy with a huge moral failing is the main story line is something I will be able to digest with what my current environment surrounding sexuality. That’s not a failing on Max’s part, especially after reading his letter, it’s something he needed to write and that’s cool, I do like the single and it’s something I can come back to when I’m more up for it. I am pretty hype about Karl doing duel vocals if I’m reading that right?

I wonder if part of the reason for the development in the is a real boy characters story and how it ends up, besides the ones explicitly stated, is due to the reflection of the music scene he was a part of when writing and touring the album and how he may have felt the album or aspects of the cycle for it played a part in it? We can debate whether there’s any actual responsibility for it, but we look at stuff like is a real boy and all the albums associated with it did not age well and how many main players are men who have had incidents of being crappy to other people and it becoming a big thing, mainly those affected by their actions were women but not always. Theres a whole mess of self reflection that probably played into writing this but hey maybe that’s one

Lastly, on the topic of property, I always wondered if part of the problem was that it was too over the top. To the point that the shitty dudes he may have thought about when writing it could listen and laugh and go yeah fuck guys like that, because it was too absurd for them to actually consider they were the bad guys the song was about. It’s hard to toe the line in satire between making it indistinguishable from those you meant to call out and making it so absurd that it really doesn’t make anyone do the thinking you sought out for. The fact that he’s someone who doesn’t experience misogyny, writing satire about misogyny, does dampen the whole intention as well.

Actual last thing- I only found out today that less cute is written from the point of view of a girl and not a man who is dating men

 

(I actually don't enjoy "Property" either.)