Say Anything - I Don’t Think It Is Album • Page 6

To answer this, yeah there are quite a few and that's something I struggle with as far as enjoyment. I mean, Glassjaw wrote one of the grossest albums ever and I still like them. TBS have several problematic songs. I guess it just depends on taste and perhaps how much you're willing to deal with

 

It's okay! Happens to the best of us. As a moderator, I completely agree with @SpyKi (and that's a first, lol). My main goal is make our users feel safe and free to have discussions like this without having to worry about them turning hostile. And if I ever did something to the opposite effect, I'd want to know so we could work it out and find a resolution!

 

Yeah, "Peace Out" is a super weird one for me. I first heard that in the middle of a horrible break-up, and as much as I didn't want to, that 'Go get high with all of your dumb friends' line really struck a chord with me. And yet as much as I like the instrumentation of the song, looking at it objectively, it's really... petty.

I also have a lot of mixed feelings about the lyrics on In Defense of the Genre, I tend to go back and forth a lot when I revisit it. Sometimes they resonate, sometimes they strike me as hurtful. However, I do think it has value as a (painfully) honest representation of the thoughts and feelings that come after losing a first love.

 

hey, we agree sometimes!!!

 

The worst thing about "Peace Out" to me is that it's written about a girl he broke up with years before.. It's so weird. Idk, it's always been one of my least favourite Say Anything songs.

 

Seconded on Glassjaw. That album is tough to listen to lyrically, but the passion overflowing from it... ohmygwqfjrjfkr

I think I can kinda handle it because, 1.) Glassjaw don't seem to have continued on that path, lyrically at least, and 2.) it does seem to come from a relatable - if really mishandled - place of pain.

Whereas listening to anything from Falling in Reverse or Sixx A.M. - I don't think I can get through one of those songs without wanting to tear my skin off!

 

It's a song I think could've been really cool with completely different lyrics.

 

Yeah, I get that. I think a lot of those songs from the early scene are more youthful naivety than actual toxic aggression towards women, whereas say, Falling In Reverse or something like that is clearly being meant in a sexist way

 

Definitely. You know, we all have different lines, art vs. artist, etc. but of course I'm always going to be biased because ...Is a Real Boy and In Defense of the Genre are two of the albums that got me into the scene. They were and still are very special to me, even if they haven't aged well or I don't revisit them as often as I used to.

Re: Max, I believe his views are misguided and he has a lot to learn (as do I) and I hope he gets there. But I do see Sherri and their daughters helping him arrive to this conclusion about some of his earlier songs, and I feel as though he is making an effort to change (views of political correctness be damned), and that's also important to me. I understand that it is and should be a constant learning process for all of us, and we may be reluctant sometimes, but I am patient with people who have had a largely positive impact on me and will continue to be until he says something that I can't come to terms with.

 

Sorry if I'm rambling; it all just kind of comes full circle when I think about how hostile things got towards the end of AP and how many kneejerk responses I had to artists without taking into account the fact that they are people too and they are flawed, just like I am. I just don't want to be as dismissive as I once was.

 

Can I ask why that'd be weird? I'm in an extremely committed relationship, but if I were a songwriter I would totally write about past relationships, no question

 

Wait, so "Peace Out" was written about a girl? I always thought it was just about a breed of people, not a specific person.

Also, "Property" is totally against sexism and "patriarchal" views of relationships/women. It's far (very far) from being a favorite of mine, but I don't think it's sexist at all so much as it is a statement mocking that brand of sexism.

 

I don't mean it's weird to write a song about a past relationship, I just think the song's weird. I think it's weird to write such a petty song about a relationship that ended five years ago after you've already written like 27 songs about it and have gotten married and apparently moved on. Like the song seems to be trying to say he's moved on and he's over her but I think it contradicts that message.

 

"Peace Out" seems very similar in message to another song I sometimes feel conflicted about, "The Night Josh Tillman Came to Our Apartment" by Father John Misty (one of my favorite artists). It's very condescending towards a certain type of person, specifically a woman, but he's also essentially playing a character you're supposed to hate sometimes and relate to other times, so it's certainly delivered with a tongue-in-cheek element. And fuck, it's a gorgeous song.

edit: I think I'm talking to myself at this point, but moral of the story is it's okay to feel conflicted (or challenged) and it can be cool to talk about it in a nonhostile environment, haha

 

aaaah yeah that makes much more sense than how I read your comment originally

 

I think I remember somewhere Max saying it was about the same person he was writing about on IDOTG and the line "inspired 30 songs I could have written in my sleep" is a reference to that.

 

yeah, I think I worded it poorly.

 

Did not know that, pretty interesting to see how he views IDOTG then

 

not as poorly as this sentence, yikes!

 

You're not alone; I still stand by this album. There's tons of really cool shit happening on this record that I haven't heard before from Max (dirt piss production choices be damned). The instrumentation and spirit of IDTII is so badass that I can't help but love it.

 

Talking to yourself? Is it possible to talk to yourself on a message board?

If a tree falls in a forest, is there someone at a keyboard to call bullshit on the tree before it hits the ground?

 

Before this conversation goes to a place I didn't intend, I just wanna clarify that the tree comment is not directed at anybody, I just thought it was funny.

I'm not calling anybody a tree. I would never do something like that.

 

I still think Peace Out is in reference to his former self.

 

Y'know, I remember back in high school reading a Rolling Stone interview with Maynard of Tool where he said something to the effect of 'emo is music for date rapists,' and remember how much that pissed me off.

Then, with some distance, I realize that this scene produced bands with names like 'Bullet for My Valentine' or 'Twelve Gauge Valentine,' or how Hit the Lights basically wrote an entire album about wanting to murder an ex-girlfriend, or the sheer number of sexual assault allegations that have come out of this scene in the past couple of years.

And then I kinda wonder if he had a point.

 

Now I wouldn't go that far, but it certainly does tap into something that's a problem with this scene and the indie rock scene: it's a lot of straight white guys. That's bound to lead to some testosterone filled, toxic rants against women. It's an issue that doesn't really have a clear answer, aside from actively supporting bands with female/POC musicians.