Rihanna Joins ‘Ocean’s Eleven’ Spin-Off • Page 2

I agree completely, and that's absolutely a bi-product of remakes like this. In a way, it's a catch-22. Hollywood believes movies starring women won't sell, so they remake classics with women to test the waters. The upset this causes - due to misogyny and a myriad of other factors - can cause low turnout, regardless of the quality of the film. This leads producers to believe they were right all along and that women can't carry a movie. It's a vicious cycle.

That's why I'm hoping the positive response that HAS resulted from films like Ghostbusters will be enough that somebody will take a chance. It's also why I'm not willing to write these films off the way a lot of folks might be.

And also, I'd be completely lying if I said it wasn't satisfying on some deep-down level to see how upset some guys get at even the THOUGHT of women coming in and ~ruining~ their films.

 

This is incredibly condescending phrasing. I am not a child. I am unsure why you are speaking to me as though that is not the case.

For future reference, it is incredibly unwise to tell a woman who is discussing privilege to be more polite in the way she is doing so. That is called tone-policing and there is nothing on this earth that is less likely to make be be more polite.

I did not owe you politeness, I did not owe you an explanation, and I will not say this again.

Have a lovely day.

 

Holy fuck this is condescending

 

I was only asking her to be nice to me. That's all.

 

The only problem I have with this film is the culture Hollywood has created that makes making this movie necessary. It's also funny to me because people complaining that this will tarnish the original think that Clooney's version was the original.

She was.

 

She's explaining and trying to educate you. Kindness goes out the window at that point, especially when you're a women in this scene who gets treated as badly as Anna and many others have. Your condescension was uncalled for

 

I see. I am sorry to her and to all of you. I did not mean for any of that

 

It's sad that it took me to get you to come around instead of you listening to Anna and taking what she's saying seriously. We can all do better than this

 

I shouldn't have told her to be polite. It was ignorant of me to do that and I will not do it in the future. I meant no one any harm

 

Sextina Aquafina?

 

Honestly, the Ghostbusters debacle is proof to me that the remake route is maybe not the way to go to bring more diversity to big-budget filmmaking. The process played out in pretty much the exact opposite way advocates for diversity could have hoped:

1. All-female remake of a beloved property is announced
2. Backlash is fierce and immediate from immature whiners who don't want "their childhood" ruined
3. Film releases, is generally praised and well-liked by those who see it (myself included)
4. Despite the overall positive reception from critics and those who have actually seen the film, not enough people go to see it because of the controversy, causing the studio to lose money on the film
5. Sequel to said film is now likely not going to happen (as opposed to pre-release, when Sony executives were essentially already confirming a sequel before opening weekend)
6. Everyone who claims that "female-led casts won't sell," including studio executives and the aforementioned immature whiners, is seemingly proven right
7. Less female-led/all-female blockbusters are greenlit

I want more diversity in Hollywood, obviously. Jennifer Lawrence, just for one example, proved that a female-led blockbuster franchise is not only possible, but that it can be critically acclaimed as well. We all know how successful Daisy Ridley was at leading a big-budget franchise entry; I'm hoping Felicity Jones does the same this December. But in this world, where females and people of color are already facing an uphill battle as it is, adding yet more obstacles to their path to equality is not, in my opinion, the answer. It is counter-productive for these executives to throw talented women like McCarthy, Wiig, Jones, and McKinnon to the fanboy wolves in the name of diversity and then use the resulting financial failure as an excuse to keep women and people of color from getting a seat at the table. Original films is a much better way to go, in my opinion.

That said, if these remakes are the only thing Hollywood is willing to do, and if those communities are fine with them, then I am not going to tell them they're wrong. It's just not the best way to go with it right now, in my opinion.

 

I don't know how you can type the first sentence and then the second one. If Hollywood won't do anything else and the communities are okay with it then how do you still think it's not the best way to go about it? As far as original films go, there are incredibly few original films as it is going through Hollywood. You take out the biopics, sequels, remakes, and adaptations and you have what, Pixar and Wes Anderson?

 

I believe the word "opinion" was in there somewhere. And I'm pretty sure my post was quite clear on why I personally don't think it's the best way to go.

And yeah, the lack of originality is a larger problem in Hollywood for sure. But how about we adapt more female-led source or PoC-led material, for example? Did that thought not cross your mind? We're finally getting Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Cyborg, and Wonder Woman, and yet there are still so many other heroines and heroes of color that aren't getting their own feature films (really shipping that Squirrel Girl movie with Anna Kendrick). A lot of that quality, diverse action is happening on television (especially on Netflix's Marvel shows and Agents of SHIELD) but there is so much excellent, blockbuster-quality material that could and should be getting adapted as well.

 

For the love of God please.

 

How many female fronted remakes/reboots of originally male fronted franchises have there been? Two? And people are arguing that it's "not the way", that's it's a "gimmick" or "cash grab" or whatever other invalidating, bullshit excuse to not make movies with women they want to throw out there?

 

These ladies obviously didn't take John mulaneys subtle advice that a ladies Oceans Eleven wouldn't work

 

Surely we are due for (wo)Men In Black soon

 

This thread has not disappointed thus far. I have never liked anything about Rihanna, my interest in this reboot is zero.

 

Look, I understand that, as a reflex, a lot of people immediately read something and decide it says something it doesn't, but if you actually look at what I wrote you'll see that I'm not invalidating anything. The fact is that Ghostbusters is a financial failure and it doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the film. And now, Ghostbusters will be used by studio executives to continue to support the (incorrect) idea that women can't carry blockbuster films and, thus, less should be made. Like I said above (if you read the whole thing) there was talk of a Ghostbusters sequel being a "no-brainer" or a "sure thing" or something like that before the film came out; then it came out, is not going to make its money back, and now the Sony reps are basically saying they're going to focus on a new animated TV series and an animated film instead. Again, not because the movie was a creative failure, but because the controversy over whether it was a "gimmick" or was "ruining people's childhoods" caused people to not see it.

So, as a result, I don't personally think that providing more ammo for people to say "women can't cut it in blockbuster filmmaking" is a good thing. Why waste time setting the cause back by providing more support for the other side when there are so many possible other films to make starring women and people of color, both original films and adaptations/biopics. But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

Ghostbusters was one movie, and it's financial failings are not really a singular issue with it, but a trend on summer films this year.

The fact is, to make a brand new, original movie is hard enough. To make one with women or POC leads is even harder. It's just hard to get them made. To give leading roles in existing franchises to women or POC is actually the easiest route towards seeing more representation in mainstream blockbusters. The Force Awakens did it. Creed did it. Mad Max: Fury Road did it. Those films were all successes, casting women and POC as the leads of pre-existing properties. There's really not a whole lot of a difference between them and Ghostbusters/Oceans.

Also, we are in a climate where reboots and sequels are dominant in the blockbuster landscape. They're going to happen for just about any property you can think of. If an Ocean's reboot/spin off was happening with Chris Pratt, Channing Tatum, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Jonah Hill, Michael B. Jordan, Miles Teller, Donald Glover, and Dave Franco, no one would be against it. But if the remake is happening anyway and they decide to go with women, now people have a billion reasons why it's a bad idea. You can dress it up with "it'll give more people ammo to say women can't cut it in blockbuster filmmaking" but 1. You haven't seen this movie yet 2. It might possibly be a smash hit, and 3. Movies shouldn't be made to appease anyone who thinks like that.

Picking "remakes and reboots shouldn't star women in the roles originated by men" as the hill to die on, especially with regards to something as innocuous as an Ocean's spin-off, is not a good look.

 

It's financial failings are completely incompatible logically based on the quality of the film. Most of the financial failures this summer have been bad films. It's really not that hard to see where the true explanation lies.

And all those films are not the same situation. They were all sequels featuring new characters that were played by women and people of color. This is obviously the smarter decision because those films were successful. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee that if Ghostbusters had been a sequel, rather than a remake/reboot, the backlash wouldn't have been nearly as bad because it wasn't for those movies and they were all successful. And I don't think you'll find anyone out there who is going to argue that Ghostbusters fanboys are more passionate than Star Wars fanboys.

I think this is an interesting idea for a sequel to Ocean's Thirteen. Obviously there's no need to make another film with that cast, considering they somehow managed to erase how terrible Ocean's Twelve was with how good the third one was. They're quitting while they're ahead and Steven Soderbergh doesn't even want to do another one anyway. This is a good idea for making a new heist film (of which there aren't nearly enough getting made) and of course it's awesome to do it with all women (John Mulaney standup comedy bit notwithstanding). I personally think casting Sandra Bullock and Rihanna in it is regrettable because (in my opinion) neither of them are very good actresses, but I also think that nobody is going to care as much about this one as they did about Ghostbusters. For one thing, this isn't a remake, it's a sequel/movie in the same universe because apparently Sandra Bullock is playing Danny Ocean's sister, and for the other thing Ocean's Eleven is not on the same level as Ghostbusters when it comes to crybaby fans. The original Ocean's Eleven isn't even that good of a film, which is why the Steven Soderbergh remake was so damn great and why it is never mentioned as an "unnecessary remake." But it isn't as beloved as Ghostbusters.

Anyway, my main point was about how we're literally seeing the process play out in real time right now with Ghostbusters. The announcement came literally a couple days ago where Sony is halting production on a sequel and instead focusing on an animated series and an animated film. And I can see this conversation is going nowhere because you've already jumped to calling me a sexist so I'll save both of us precious time in our lives. I'm just saying that, because Sony set Ghostbusters up for failure, now we've just lost a potential continuing avenue of representation in a major Hollywood franchise. And I'm not okay with that because it's an insult to those four hilarious women and to the quality of the work they turned in.

 

Bad movies make a lot of money all the time. Jurassic World and Suicide Squad broke records. Good movies sometimes don't make much money.

Possibly accurate but there was even backlash to Furiosa in Mad Max and Rey and Finn in Star Wars. The problem does not lie with Mad Max, Star Wars, or Ghostbusters for making those choices, but with shitty people reacting the way they did. And those reactions are not a reason to stop attempting to be more representative onscreen.

...okay, then it sounds like this film is closer to the Star Wars/Mad Max route than Ghostbusters, so why bring Ghostbusters into it?

Cool opinion. It an incorrect opinion, and thankfully not one any studios care about, but you're more than free to feel however you want about those actresses.

So again, if this is taking a different route than Ghostbusters, a route more similar to films that were giant successes, why does Ghostbusters matter in this conversation?

Are we? You said multiple times that this movie is a cool idea and taking a different approach than Ghostbusters with a property that has less shitty fans.

Really? I did? Where?

We lost that avenue? Oh no! But... In a post-female-Ghostbusters world... We're talking in the comment thread... For a female centered reboot/sequel/spin-off of a male-originated franchise.

 

This will probably be garbage just like Ghostbusters was. Re-hashing successful movies with an all-female cast gimmick is not the route to success with this. There are plenty of movies with female leads that are massively successful and that's because they are good movies, not because they're trying to pander.

 

I'm not a big fan of Bullock but her playing Clooney's sister is a perfect casting, I don't care what anyone says. Those two are more believable as siblings than most actor siblings. If not all. I can't think of an example that doesn't involve twins.

And the route to success is....?

 

I personally am sick of all the pandering to white guys.