Pinegrove - Skylight (September 28, 2018) Album • Page 42

Honestly, its probably worse than just sexual coercion, based on the fact that the band has completely withdrawn to get him help. This is the kind of thing that people who are falsely accused of something, don't do. But, by using your air tight logic, since he didn't sign a statement of guilt, notarized by a judge, there's actually no problem here.

 

Actually, I just don't think it's okay to say stuff like "Honestly, its probably worse than just sexual coercion," because that is a hefty accusation without any evidence to support it (i.e., your "air tight logic" is worse than mine. At least mine is consistent).

 

Damnit, I was hoping the fact that his avatar disappeared meant that he was gone.

 

We have his own admission, the actions taken by the band, and information from people who have spoken with the victim in this situation, which is in this thread that you haven't read. There's not evidence that there's no problem, you can't just ignore things you don't like to hear and pretend everything is fine. This dude fucked up, the severity of this fuck up is not entirely known, but pretending like nothing happened is naive, and allows shitty people to continue to be shitty in positions of power without consequences. Why do you want to die on this bad hill with so many others?

 

I am not acting like everything is fine. I just said we don't know all the facts. Do people not deal in nuance anymore? He can not admit to sexual coercion and still admit that he did not always behave well in his relationship or in regards to the crowds at his shows. I can that Nandi still writing with Evan may be a sign that she forgives him, and also possibly has judged him redeemable knowing the full extent of the situation, but that she and the other band members still think he made mistakes and there was room for improvement as a person (which is true for everyone).

I know it's easier to just make blanket judgments against all who have been accused, but I look at someone like Conor Oberst and wonder if his accusation had come in 2018 whether he would've ever recovered even after the girl fully admitted she made the entire thing up. Hell, I still people saying "Wait, are we supposed to listen to Bright Eyes?' That sucks.

I'm not trying to defend Evan per se, but facts and words matter. We have a lot of words, but we're still light on facts. Is it wrong to withhold judgment until we have more of both?

 

If you want to support victims, then yeah, it's wrong. When you have this much context and you're still waffling, it's wrong.

 

If you want to reserve judgement you wouldn't be in the thread trying to defend him, you'd say nothing and wait for more info to come to light

 

This is mind numbing.

 

You're right. An absolute waste of my time and yours when facts no longer matter.

 

Christ, he’s an alternative facts guy y’all.

 

Fact: something happened, it was not good, and it is being taken very seriously by the band and people close to the victim

You don't get to pretend that he's not an abuser despite evidence that some form of abuse took place. More information on what happened may come out, but there's not going to be a statement that he did nothing wrong and the band is going to move on and ignore this.

Or you can keep derailing the conversation in this thread with "he didn't technically admit to coercion, coercion isn't technically as bad as assault, one person maybe thinks this is ok so its fine by me", these aren't facts, this is you spinning what we know to dismiss it as unimportant. Its bullshit and you are wasting my time, and yours.

 

Just stay away from the discussion then and wait for more info to come out or just dont say anything at all here. It's clear something happened that much we know for sure.

 

This is a very dumb and illogical take. Did you get banned yet?

 

“It’s such a tricky topic for me because I don’t ever want to minimize how much that happens to women all the fucking time,” he says. “They say one in four women will experience some kind of sexual assault in their life which is fucking insane and heartbreaking. So as painful and surreal and fucked up as my situation was, I don’t ever want to use this as an example to justify anything" - Conor Oberst

 

"ACTUALLY, I-"

 

I dunno folks, maybe it is more important that some anecdotal people don't listen to Bright Eyes.

 

Sorry for the double post, honestly not wanting to drag this conversation out, but a little thought I was having earlier is that it's strange to me that Conor Oberst always gets trotted out in these arguments as though we should be careful to take allegations seriously. If anything he is a prime example that false accusations don't harm men. His career is fine! He's still widely respected, he has since released some very successful albums. It ignores half the narrative to act like Oberst has suffered anywhere near the countless victims of sexual abuse.

 

Is there a recent example of a false accusation being leveled against a female artist who ended up not recovering from it once it was found to be false? I’m not just trying to play devils advocate here but i dont think the Oberst case is an example of how men can get away free of harm, i think its an example of people being able to cast aside judgements once the fact of it being a false allegation came out. I think we are at least a forgiving society in that regard.

I’m just so goddamn tired of seeing the Oberst example being brought up because it’s usually the last ditch effort of a man trying to play down how terribly men in the entertainment world (and the rest of the world at that) are to women expecting to get away with it.

Honestly bringing up Oberst as a defense nowadays should result in a ban.

 

I think the point was just that it's absurd to bring up Oberst as someone who's life was ruined by false accusations because it was not in fact ruined once the allegations were admitted to be false.

 

Agreed completely. My post was made about 7 minutes after I woke up so I hope my intention is not misinterpreted lol

 

Okay you want a real example of men getting away with shit and their careers being fine, how about Kobe Bryant

 

Not even just getting away with it but he became BIGGER and made more money after that shit.

I will never ever understand that.

 

i mean, if we’re extending the conversation to sports, it’ll be never ending. not that we shouldn’t, kobe is just hardly the only example. ray rice was reinstated in the nfl for being caught on camera uppercutting his wife and dragging her out of an elevator when she couldn’t walk afterwards. it’s a garbage industry.

 

It's entertainment as a whole. Mel Gibson was rehabilitated for fucks sake

 

Fucking what?! I mean, I have no idea who that is but christ.