Pinegrove - Skylight (September 28, 2018) Album • Page 37

yeah i don't fuck with this at all. Sending this message to abusers that genuinely want to acknowledge they fucked up and wbe accountable for their wrongdoing is not good. You're telling them that they will never be able to resume their artistic life in any sort of public sense and only encouraging them to continue hiding from what they've done. redemption shouldn't be impossible.

obviously by redemption I mean actually going through some level of accountability process in accordance with the wishes of their victim and not putting out some half assed non-apology on FB so they can continue their career as usual

 

i think this is an important thing to consider

 

Yall are really out there being like "but what about the POOR abuser who has clearly no intention to rehabilitate himself or go through with an actual accountability process??? what about him!!!! we need to comfort him and make all kinds of accomodations should another shitty dude also be outed so that they don't feel saaaaad and excluuuuded". Wow boy do I have news for you guys about how victims feel! You don't equate a victim's wellbeing and recovery with an abuser's rehabilitation & reintegration. They're not on the same plan of importance. Check yourselves. This thread is just wildly offensive all round.

 

Public life, career, and praise is a privilege. Not a right. Redemption doesn’t mean you get to keep making art and be a celebrity. That’s not what restorative justice is about. Those that actually seek it know that.

I’m completely fine saying that “public” life should be over for those that greatly abuse its power. Celebrity is toxic. “Redemption” is personal, celebrity the antithesis of that.

 

If the worst consequence someone faces is no longer being able to play in a mediocre band for people they’ll be just fine. (And it’s clear our society is just fine pretending nothing happened a few years later anyway.)

 

I don’t get why I got this response to be honest, I was just backing the point that I don’t want artists who have done wrong to keep hiding it and brushing it under the rug. By no means am I defending wrong doings of artists. I want them to be expose themselves where appropriate.

 

I really don’t think anyone in here said this.

 

Because the part you quoted included, “You're telling them that they will never be able to resume their artistic life in any sort of public sense”

 

the later part of the sentence is the part I was thinking was interesting, not really that part

 

This is not even remotely close to what I said, whatsoever. The victim's wellbeing and recovery are absolutely the most important thing whenever an abusive situation occurs. There should be no reintegration of any kind until that is ironed out first. If the victim communicates with their abuser and believes that they will still go out and continue abusing despite whatever reparations they've tried to make, tough shit dude, don't try to revive your career. If the victim does not feel comfortable communicating with their abuser and still feels at risk, same thing.

Take the Malcolm London/Bled Fest thing. Even though he was held accountable within his own artistic community (which is sadly almost never going to happen in genres of music dominated by white dudes that never hold themselves accountable) and his victim came out and personally said that she would be OK with him performing, enough survivors attending the fest spoke out feeling unsafe about his inclusion, and pulling him from the lineup was the right decision.

Regarding this particular situation, if Evan/Pinegrove are actively going against the wishes of who Evan abused so he/they can continue the band, then they can fuck right off and don't deserve anybody's support. Unfortunately that seems like that's going to be the case.

 

K. I was responding to what you quoted as being important. I disagree.

 

looking at it again the way I worded the original post comes off as insensitive to the victims bc it gives too much weight to the importance of the abuser's career. That's my bad

 

I feel like there's an awful lot of assumptions going on here, unless you all know something I don't? Cause I still don't know what even happened...

 

Read through the Accountability thread

 

one last post, for now.

i feel like there is a big difference between negative action and inaction. negative action to me is what nandi did: throwing public support behind an abuser and saying that she'd always support him. regardless of what's happening behind the scenes and how much she knows, to victims who don't know details it just seems like full support. and that's not right. i don't blame her completely because the publication should have known better than bait her into a question about the situation, but i'm still very uncomfortable with how she said what she did, and i'm curious to see if she tweets something clarifying that today

phoebe however, didn't actually do anything but post something about her upcoming tour. you have to remember that we still live surrounded by capitalism, and for an overseas tour where all the details about her tourmate weren't set in stone, as well as tons of management control i'm sure, it's much harder to drop a tour at that point without totally blowing up your own career. i don't see anything she did as supportive of evan, and i just wish we could have a little nuance about how this works in the industry as well as understanding the world we live in

however, after reading over my posts i now realize i was veering into policing in that regard, and i apologize. of course people can be mad with phoebe or kevdev or whoever for whatever reasons, i'm just always someone who'd prefer a realistic approach when it comes to people who haven't directly supporting abusers after they have been outed. all abusers are bad, but i think we need to be careful about who gets caught in the crossfire. why do we need to focus on people that truly haven't thrown support behind abusive people publicly? however as i said, people can definitely hold what feelings they have and again i apologize if it ever felt like i was trying to push people away from their own feelings

 

That's a big thread and I don't really have the time to look at it all but I'll just look it up another day.

 

It’s all within the past day. Worth looking at if you’re confused about people making assumptions

 

They shouldn't be releasing any more material. Bummer.

 

I've tossed the idea in my head for a bit, but how would people feel if they continued as a band without Evan? I know he was like the primary songwriter, but I can see myself feeling more comfortable returning to them without him as frontman.

 

it wouldn't be pinegrove, pinegrove is pretty much evan's project with a band

 

I believe Pinegrove is almost a solo project- I know his live lineup has changed a few times, but it wouldn't make sense to have Pinegrove without Evan.

 

Sprucegrove?

Sorry. I just read through most of this thread and my brain is numb for anything other than bad puns.

 

Evan Stephens Hall should stay the fuck away from this scene if he knows what's good for him. Fuck him and fuck Half Waif.

 

Love how this is insinuating Pinegrove is now just some mediocre band. *eye roll*

Can't wait for the reviews that pan their new album when it's released too. If you can't talk honestly about a band or an artist you might as well not talk about them at all.