Marvel Cinematic Universe Movie • Page 279

Disney blows

 

Yeah, the debate is getting pushed to an angle that I still don’t see as grounds to claim that the MCU and films like it are simply not what the vast majority of the general audience want to see.

The small movies we love were grouped into their categories before the MCU and they would still be small movies even if the MCU wasn’t here, which I’d argue is why some love them. They fit the tastes that a select group of people seek out.

It feels like the conclusion is already being made and then confirmation bias is being used to show examples of Disney being bullies and that is all the evidence needed to show that Marvel is only a $20 billion franchise because it’s what audiences see most.

I’d argue it’s a $20 billion franchise because it’s what the general audience wants. It’s only after that that Disney pushes it.

Most of the small movies wouldn’t gross over $150 million even with getting the Disney treatment.

 

no one is arguing “Marvel is only a $20 billion franchise because it’s what audiences see most”. No one is arguing a foreign indie art film would make $150 million if the MCU didn’t exist. You aren’t really addressing the issues I’m bringing up. We are concerned at the way Disney and franchises are monopolizing the cinematic landscape. Because monopolies are bad.

 

The initial issue..or idea, I’m debating is that things would change back to pre-MCU if the MCU was gone and I don’t think they would because films like what the MCU offers is what audiences have realized they want to see - so much that they not only pay to watch 3 MCU films a year, but they watch all of them multiple times, and a new streaming was able to match (or become larger?) than Netflix in a very short time with one of its focuses being the MCU.

Maybe without the MCU the general audience wouldn’t have had the experience of being fed a buffet of material they want to see, but now that they have it’s turned to an expectation, or even a craving, for something like it, which is why I’m sure Gunn’s DC will be a great success.

I’m not debating that Disney isn’t forcing their presence into every corner of the industry. Their forcing would be pointless if they weren’t forcing what audiences were already happy to pay for multiple times, however, and that will have a last mark. Perhaps it’s more correct for me to say I think things would change in the industry if Disney’s power was lowered, not if the MCU was gone. That’s what I’m debating.

 

AVENGERS: THE KANG DYNASTY's Lead Rumored To Be Spider-Man After Tom Holland Signs Massive New "Secret" Deal

 

That was never the premise of anything I said. There are a lot of factors that I’ve already talked about as to why moviegoing is down, including the pandemic, streaming, and Disney, among other things. If Star Wars the MCU were dissolved tomorrow and no franchise or superhero movies were ever going to be released to theaters again, by definition there would literally be more diversity at theaters in the kinds of movies people could choose to see. Your premise seems to assume people would just stop going to the movies, which they may. If Disney decided to only release their movies on Disney+ and theaters had to play mid-budget, indie, arthouse, or foreign films, maybe audiences would dwindle until theaters all died out. I don’t know that I believe that’s what would happen, though. There were audiences for different kinds of movies before the MCU came along and provided, as you put it, “what audiences have realized they want to see”, which I think is a ridiculous sentiment

 

Yeah, there were movies making some bank, but never before has there been a franchise releasing three films per year that all made bank. There’s also a massive culture shift in entertainment that has followed the MCU which has been closely matched by anything other than Star Wars and even that franchise hasn’t seen the same success while releasing half of the same number of projects since 2015, which to me shows the grand appeal that general audiences have of continuing to give money to roughy the same 3 films per year.

We agree that Disney’s power grip on the industry is diminishing opportunities for small films and aspiring artists. Our disagreement over if the MCU is what general audiences want is something I don’t think we’ll agree on.

 

I think both sides are going a little overboard here, but I do think the MCU does a fair job of appealing to a wide audience, and I think how successful it is reflects that. I mean, is there any other mainstream franchise that has performed even close to as well, both commercially and critically?

 

Spider-Man being the LEAD of Kang Dynasty is a bit surprising.

Part of me feel like this was given to scoopers to generate hype for Kang Dynasty after audiences were dissatisfied with Quantumania. Pretty convenient that news like that would surface right after.

 

It would be weird if true, just because Spider-Man is such an unlikely choice for the film to center on.

In fact, I would think it more likely for the film to center on Kang, in the same way that Infinity War kind of centered on Thanos, and just have whatever heroes are around reacting to Kang's presence.

 

I think they just mean that Spider-Man will be top billing and be the avenger with the most screen time

 

It will be interesting seeing how they manage to draw the Avengers together by the time Kang Dynasty rolls around, seeing as how they're all in very separate places right now.

I mean, at least with Infinity War, you had basically two groups headed by Tony and by Steve, with the Guardians meeting Tony along the way.

Here... Spider-Man's basically isolated himself, Dr. Strange is in the Dark Dimension, Thor is retired, Hawkeye is retired, Scarlet Witch is "dead", Vision fucked off somewhere, and most of the new heroes introduced this phase don't even know anyone. I'm just saying, the recruitment drive episode is gonna be interesting to see how all these people like Moon Knight and She-Hulk and Shang-Chi come together.

Like, I guess She-Hulk will obviously come from Hulk himself, and Ms. Marvel from Carol, and Shang-Chi's already met Wong, Hulk, and Carol. If Hawkeye doesn't come back, he'll at least clearly vouch for Kate, and I'm gonna guess Vision comes back as some "turn of the tide" type situation. And maybe Loki brings Thor back?

Oh man! So many possibilities! My head is swimming!

 

Still banking on the idea that the Ten Rings and Kamala's bracelet are Kang tech that lost their place through time....and daddy Kang will come to collect. There are rumors that Kang has also been pulling the strings behind the scenes to get rid of certain powerful Avengers like Wanda, which would certainly pull things together if revealed.

 

But which Kang? The one that died in Loki? The one that died in Quantumania? Granted, death means very little in the MCU. Or will it be a Kang from the mid credits scene?

 

Ehhhhh... I'm not sure if I like the idea of another set of MacGuffins.

 

Also, I'd bet good money that Kang isn't dead.

 

The rumor mostly comes from the Ten Rings calling out to someone, the origin of Kamala's bracelet being unknown, and the items sharing similar designs to Kang's tech.

I'd like for the Ten Rings to dive deeper into lore, but I don't know if Marvel will get into the Makluans. Willing to bet Shang-Chi won't go cosmic.

 

yes

In all honesty it would just be the Kang that Loveness decides is most convenient.

 

don’t blame me, i voted for thanos!

 

Now this would suck major ass unless it's only a cameo or end credit scene. Kang doesn't need to be in a Shang-Chi solo. Why can't Shang-Chi just bean impressive street-level hero with severe and traumatic family drama for me to enjoy while eating salty popped pieces of corn?

Gene Luen Yang's run was great. Just copy/paste a lot of that to the films. Not everything needs to be made bigger.

 

I mean, at the end of the last movie, his rings were emitting a signal to space. This is happening.

 

It should be saved for Kang Dynasty, not a Shang-Chi film, which is time for exploring Shang-Chi's comic lore.

The original #110 issues of Master of Kung Fu was a massive family drama. The new stuff by Gene Luen Yang (which is some of the best Shang-Chi) material is a family drama.

Shang-Chi’s solo films should be a family drama

Have the second be about the issues with him and his sister. Have the third be about (if they follow the original comics) him finding his mom is alive.

It would be acceptable IF Shang-Chi 2 is set after Kang Dynasty and we get a Battleworld story where Wenwu is the emperor K’un Lun and he struggles with challenging him after watching him already die once. That would at least keep the lore from source material and family drama.

Sorry for venting but Marvel is simply missing out on the rare opportunity of having a classic trilogy focused on martial arts & family drama