Marvel Cinematic Universe Movie • Page 269

Ok

 

I imagine that’ll happen in Deadpool 3 if the rumors are true

 

Simu Liu is here in Taipei playing pickup basketball with complete strangers in Daan Park for the weekend. Might try to get a photo with him.

 

You’ve said a lot dumb shit but this may be the worst. I’m being extra mean on purpose, as a joke

 

Yeah, that’s a weird one. Unless it’s referencing RDJs past addictions, which I doubt he is, I don’t even know what it could be referencing.

 

Anyone who goes out of their way to support and defend shitty people is shitty themselves, just my opinion.

 

Uh

 

I don't disagree but you haven't even said why he's shitty

 

I think it's because he defended Mel Gibson

 

Who did he defend?

 

Within that context I don’t see anything wrong with what RDJ said. Simply asking people to forgive Mel for his horrible behavior in his past. RDJ has been in similar shoes and was able to better himself. He just wants the same for Mel. Doesn’t mean you have to like the guy to forgive him or his actions.

 

I'm at work, so I can't listen to the video directly, but from what I've read, it sounds like he wasn't defending him so much as seeing their roles reversed.

Gibson helped Downey out when he was in a bad place, and I think Downey was just responding to that.

I dunno, I recognize both someone's desire for a friend to be able to turn their life around and also that someone doesn't have to be forgiven. But I don't think Downey is in the wrong for wanting forgiveness for his friend, especially if he was given a second chance by that same friend when he was down.

 

What did Downey do in the past besides drugs and get arrested?

 

I think that's it, isn't it? But no one wanted to touch him with a ten-foot pole after that.

 

Except that by "forgiveness" RDJ is essentially asking that Mel Gibson be welcomed back in Hollywood circles and be able to resume his life as normal after all the horrific shit he said. Forgiveness is one thing, being a famous superstar who gets to star in and direct movies is a different thing. There's also this:

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/...ey-jr-superhero-cultural-genocide-1235362143/

whether you like his movies or not (I think he's a brilliant actor who hasn't made a good movie in over a decade maybe), you don't have to look for the ways in which you don't think the shitty things he said are actually all that shitty. He's a rich famous actor, as insular and ignorant as anyone else with a shit ton of money. We don't have to pretend he's super cool.

 

RDJ says "I humbly ask that you join me, unless you are completely without sin, in which case you picked the wrong fucking industry, in forgiving my friend"

There's a difference between addiction and antisemitism. No one is obligated to forgive that and equating it to just another celebrity scandal is dismissive. RDJ has an antisemitic friend that he chose to go to bat for, it's simple. I don't care if he's in Secret Wars or not but there's no reason to defend him against someone on the internet who thinks what he said is shitty.

 

No one is saying he's "super cool", and that kind of comes off a little insultingly dismissive.

Also, empathizing with someone doesn't have to mean you agree with them. It's possible to both understand why Downey would want a second chance for Gibson and also not think Gibson deserves a second chance.

They're not mutually exclusive points of view.

 

I understand why RDJ would ask for forgiveness for a friend who helped him out when he was in a rough place. But to choose to publicly ask your peers and the general public to forgive antisemitism is what I can't quite square with finding "nothing wrong" in what he said.

 

I think Mel Gibson has never once felt sorry for what he said, just sorry he got caught saying it.

 

This is honestly making me uncomfortable, as I am Jewish, and I want to make very clear that I don't condone hate speech of any kind.

But I also feel like people fuck up and can change who they are and become better people. I have to believe that, or we are fucked.

I'm only trying to say that I get Downey's headspace, and I don't think that makes him a shitty person.

 

People are complicated

 

All that is fair enough. I don't think Mel Gibson has shown any step at all towards being a better person. There's a long list of things he's said, not only his antisemitic remarks, but also things he's said and done that are racist towards Black people, misogynistic, and he plead no contest to a domestic battery charge. RDJ has actively campaigned beyond just that video, throughout the 2010s, to rehabilitate Gibson's image and career and while I understand the personal connection between the two, I find it troubling and don't see the issue with anyone dismissing RDJ as "shitty" or whatever else they want to call him.

All the best.

 

People being able to change is what makes part of being human special. If I remained who I was when I was 15 I'd be absolutely awful. I try to improve and sometimes I fuck up, but I always want to be better.

 

I don’t feel like getting too caught up in another debate about the nuances of when & how to engage in media with people who are various degrees of messy and/or full on awful. Some cases are much less defensible than others, but I don’t feel like being a cop over matters that grown adults should be able to wrestle with themselves.

What I will say is that comparing Mel Gibson’s repeated grown-ass shittiness to people (especially 15-yr-olds!!) learning to be better people is really weird. Hand waving all bad track records as “giving space to grow” is kinda the opposite of “nuance.” And, “forgiveness” isn’t a magic word that alters reality into proper place upon being stated.

Again, sort out the specifics of how you engage with each situation yourself (inviting people you trust into your deliberation if that’s something you’re into). I’d just… humbly recommend that you do think about it, instead of reject it all outright.