Marvel Cinematic Universe Movie • Page 188

I think Xavier should be treated like the Nick Fury of the team. Used sparingly, in moments of crisis.

 

The thing is, you can’t have both Storm and Cyclops in prominence in an X-Men team at the same time, and Storm is a better team leader if you wanna do the whole X-Men concept justice.

The 60s era wasn’t good unless Juggernaut, or Havok and/or Polaris, was on the page. The Claremont era, which is THE X-Men, was at its best when Storm, Kitty, & Logan replaced Scott & Jean as the protagonists. (The 90s were rough for both Storm and Cyclops, and what do you know, was also aimless.) Morrison’s New X-Men is my favorite and focused on Scott, but it worked specifically as a deconstruction of classic X-Men; you can’t launch a story with that. Then, the next high point for Cyclops was Bendis’ Uncanny, which worked specifically because of how it was in conversation with the past.

Which is why I think the best model is a Storm-led X-Men film series and a Cyclops-led X-Factor tv series. X-Factor on Disney+ could play with the themes of Claremont’s “From the Ashes,” Simonson’s X-Factor, and later character work by Morrison and Bendis, existing in dialogue with Xavier’s failed vision of assimilation plus romantic baggage and growing up. Cyclops is more interesting as that than as the WASP-iest vessel for *The Mutant Metaphor*.

Meanwhile, you can have Storm, a black woman who grew up in Africa, leading the X-Men film team. Give her either Jewish bisexual Kitty Pryde or second generation Chinese immigrant Jubilee as her young mentee. Dive headfirst into the mutant metaphor with the Morlocks, including a fight between Storm and Callisto. And, have the Purifiers or another human hate group (relevant!!!) as the main villains… I guess with Sentinels thrown in, since Marvel can’t not have spectacle in their movies’ third acts.

 

Or, it’s a great idea? Obviously a bad, dumb writer could go into weird Illuminati territory… but, if someone read X-Men and accidentally made it antisemitic, I’d be shocked. It’d be more so a story vehicle for talking about capitalism, which is something we definitely need, lol.

Plus, on a continuity level (which is always secondary to character and theme, but still work considering)… Introducing the Hellfire Club, the Morlocks, a closeted Dazzler, Madripoor (with Asian writers!), etc., lets you show that mutants have always been around at the margins, which is necessary for the concept to work. And, it lets you bring in a villainous Emma Frost, one of the greatest X-Men characters, who can eventually have a face turn and become a major part of the team/series.

 

I grew up with the animated series more than the comics, so I guess I'm partial to that dynamic.

That being said, I'm not sure why Cyclops and Storm couldn't both be prominent. Cap and Iron Man didn't have an issue with that in the Avengers.

I also don't think we need to start making multiple teams right off the bat. I feel like a better idea is to just have a show and a film series about the same team, and have the show focus on secondary members and more personal battles, and the movies on the main team and main villains.

 

Actually, I was thinking of capitalism and not about antisemitism. I just don't need everything to become a political statement, and I feel like something like the Hellfire Club could easily be twisted into a political statement.

That said, I don't disagree with your other points, and I would like to see a good film version of Emma.

 

I’m honestly kinda surprised you’d argue for Scott with the 90s cartoon, which famously used him as a stick in the mud, lol, helping to lay the groundwork for the 00s movies. Most people I know who mainly go off the 90s cartoon and/or comics aren’t big Scott fans.

Steve and Tony is a different beast. Tony’s not really a leader, and he has a specific dynamic with Steve historically that makes them more of a pair. It’s very rare for Scott and Ororo to both be on the same team without at least one of them being sidelined to some extent, and when they have shared the same spotlight, it’s typically been in a story explicitly about how Storm’s the leader the X-Men need (particularly under Claremont, like that one iconic time powerless mohawk Storm beat Cyclops in combat).

And, again… I just think Scott’s best stories are about him growing up and being in tension with Xavier’s legacy. And, the mutant metaphor for marginalized demographics is too important (to the franchise, the fan base, and me specifically) to sideline, and characters like Storm and Kitty tackle that better when Cyclops’ story isn’t taking up space. Which is why I’d like the 80s strategy where Scott’s narrative is in the spin-off series.

The X-Men, when good, are always political, though. When they were just another Lee & Kirby superhero team, they were the one that got canceled. It’s when they became a textual metaphor for being Jewish, then being queer, with some disability ideas thrown in, and intersecting with (but, contrary to popular opinion, not being ABOUT) blackness, etc., that they worked. That, soap opera, and big weird sci-fi concepts, are the heart of the X-Men.

 

Anyways, since I’m caught up thinking too much about my attachment to the X-Men, a comic book superhero franchise initially intended for children and owned by Disney, while in my 30s…

Here’s some random favorite X-comics from the past couple decades, if you haven’t read a bunch:

- New X-Men by Grant Morrison, Frank Quitely, & friends
- X-Statix by Peter Milligan & Mike Allred
- Mekanix by Chris Claremont & Juan Bobillo
- X-Treme X-Men by Chris Claremont & Igor Kordey
- Wolverine by Greg Rucka & Darick Robertson
- X-Men by Mike Carey & Chris Bachalo
- New Mutants by Zeb Wells & friends
- X-23 by Marjorie Liu & friends
- Astonishing X-Men by Marjorie Liu, Mike Perkins, & Gabriel Walta
- Uncanny X-Men by Brian Michael Bendis, Chris Bachalo, & Kris Anka
- All-New Wolverine by Tom Taylor & David Lopez
- Generation X by Christina Strain & Amilcar Pinna
- House of X/Powers of X by Jonathan Hickman, Pepe Larraz, & RB Silva
- X-Factor by Leah Williams & David Baldeón
- New Mutants by Vita Ayala & Rod Reis (the best Big 2 comic book of 2021 imo)

 

::raises hand:: my main knowledge of X-Men started with the 90s cartoon and Scott was always my favorite

 

Same

 

I do agree with a lot of what you've said. I guess going back to the Hellfire Club, it has more to do with me just not finding them that interesting as villains. That's not to say I wouldn't want them to be used in some fashion down the road, I just... don't want them to be the first villains the X-Men fight in the MCU, I guess.

As for Cyclops, my memory of the cartoon is hazy broad strokes at this point, but I do remember him being a stick-in-the-mud, that's true. I guess that doesn't really bother me? I kind of got that impression of him from what I've read of the comics, honestly, so I'm not sure what personality he's supposed to have. I feel like that version of the character works fine when surrounded by other opposite personalities.

Like, the X-Men is a collective and they all have their own foibles, and I always felt like Scott was the "hard decisions" kind of leader. Similarly, I've always felt Storm was a "heart of the team" kind of leader, but I do also admit I've never seen Cyclops and Storm working together as leaders in any form of media, so it's hard for me to envision what that dynamic would look like vs. Cap and Iron Man, so I get what you're saying there.

I dunno, I don't like the idea of having multiple teams going around just simply because I'm selfish and want all the characters in one room to bounce off of each other, but I also recognize the impossibility of that. I was thinking after my last post about how dense the X-Men pantheon is, and how impossible it will be to have just one team and still have everyone involved that people want to see.

What if they did like they did in the 90s and had a Blue and Gold team?

Anyway, since you brought up Dazzler, I would like to throw out Armor as my random choice for a left field X-Men appearance. I can't put my finger on why, but I've always liked that character.

 

Adding more of my thoughts: It occurred to me that in the cartoon, even with a core team of X-Men, they still had to separate certain characters like Colossus and Nightcrawler and only introduce them for particular episodes.

There's just too many X-Men. As much as I can't imagine a team without Cyclops or Wolverine, there needs to be a way to give a healthy amount of attention to other characters, like Kitty, or Angel. Hell, we haven't had a real Gambit in the movies yet either.

That's why I think a TV show is going to be a necessity. The sea of characters is just way too dense to wade through. I mean, no matter how you build a team, someone is going to be left out, and some section of fandom is going to be upset.

 

I mean, the Hellfire Club were kinda the villains of the Dark Phoenix Saga, classic New Mutants, etc., and have evolved into a very important not-quite-villainous part of X-Men mythology. *shrug*

And, I’m actually suggesting the Purifiers and/or Sentinels as the first villains, with Callisto & the Morlocks in that kinda-villains-kinda-allies role Magneto often played in the Fox stuff. The Hellfire Club would be a bigger ongoing presence, with like Sebastian Shaw and Emma Frost and the Hellions as the story of the second film.

As for a Blue Team & Gold Team… nah. I don’t think we need that, or Uncanny & Astonishing, or whatever. That’s what “X-Factor” is for, imo.

 

I don't think having a mutant-hating group as the first villains makes sense from a storytelling standpoint unless we're going with the idea that either mutants have always been around in the MCU or if they're going to be in a separate universe where they've always existed.

If the first movie is going to introduce the concept of the mutants and the X-Men, then I think it makes more sense to have the events of the first movie lead to the Sentinels or Purifiers or whoever you want (I prefer Sentinels both from a visual standpoint and because they're more iconic), otherwise it feels like too much too soon.

I mean, I know this isn't going to be the best example since I understand you're not a fan of this movie, but the first Spider-Man movie for the MCU was just about Spider-Man vs. the Vulture. It was simple.

I think any film that is going to introduce a concept has to start with the basics before it gets weird or complicated, or you don't have any room to properly explore what's going on.

But if mutants get introduced in another film or if we're opening the door to a universe where they've always existed, then you have more wiggle room to play around, I guess. I prefer things to happen organically, but we may be beyond that at this point, and I'm sure audiences don't really want to sit for another X-Men origin story.

On Hellfire Club: (shrugs) I can appreciate the historical and storytelling importance of the Hellfire Club and what the concept brings to the table. They still don't excite me personally.

On X-Factor: This is just me nitpicking. I know it doesn't matter whether two teams are called X-Men and X-Factor or whatever terminology you want to use. I just like them all to be X-Men.

 

I just want to see Xavier, Magento, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm and a few others interact with the other MCU characters. Whichever way makes that possible I’m game for

 

That’s exactly the idea I’m going with. Which, has been a sticking point between me and other people in this thread at times, and is one that I’m pessimistic about Marvel Studios doing. But, it’s the no-brainer obvious answer; anything else fundamentally breaks mutants as a concept.

The Hellfire Club, Morlocks, and Madripoor are simple concepts to introduce mutants as a thing that has history in this world, that simply hasn’t been shown onscreen yet (like Wakanda or magic users).

 

I’m fine with mutants existing in the MCU or joining from a multiverse or “awakening” their powers from the snap or blip

basically whatever happens, cool. I’m just glad they’re in the MCU sandbox.

 

I feel like it is absolutely possible to have things exist in the MCU that the Powers That Be are either not aware of yet or are aware of and just haven't needed to indicate as such to us. It's why I have faith that introducing Blade and vampires won't be a huge stretch of logic, but I do also feel like there's only so far you can take that without raising a lot of questions that won't have satisfactory answers.

I get why this is a problem. If you have some inciting action that causes mutants to exist, then you lose the whole "powers from birth" and the allegories arising from that. The same problem exists when you have them coming from another universe, and actually I can see how the optics on making them appear like dimensional invaders would not be great.

If there was an inciting event that caused an influx of powered beings, then you could play it as humanity being concerned about superpowered beings in general, which actually solves a problem that's always concerned me about the X-Men and other heroes being in the same universe: why do other heroes get a pass but mutants are the ones who are hated?

I dunno, I don't think there's any really tactful or great way to go about this that is going to please everyone.

 

I also want to add that I would like a Wolverine show just so we could possibly get this scene in live action.

 

My main concern re-Cyclops is you can't ignore him being the first X-Man. It's such an essential part of his character's upbringing and is a cornerstone of the arc he goes on. And, like Tim said, you can get a lot more mileage out of an arc like that in a show that can focus a bit more on him than the movies where he would inevitably be competing with other characters for narrative space

 

Let’s go. The Christmas setting seems to be utilized well.

 

I hope we get to see a full number from Rogers the Musical.

 

I don't know what I expected from the trailer but it definitely wasn't that haha

Looks fun! I suspect this will be less Loki and more Falcon and Winter Soldier but that's okay.