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Mank (David Fincher, 2020) • Page 5

Discussion in 'Entertainment Forum' started by TJ Wells, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Morrissey

    Trusted

    Do people bring up the Grammy's in the threads about albums?
     
    Victor Eremita likes this.
  2. phaynes12

    https://expertfrowner.bandcamp.com/ Prestigious

    i would say the grammys are the one outlier. it’s not like the oscars only reward the MCU and star wars every year, which is the equivalent of what the grammys do.
     
    CarpetElf likes this.
  3. radiodead

    Trusted

    No because the Oscars are far better at putting up quality movies in the big categories. Music is even more subjective than movies. No one brings up the Grammys in the Dogleg thread because we know Dogleg isn’t going to get nominated for a Grammy. Mank is a film made by one of the biggest American auteur filmmakers and is pretty much a slam dunk for a slew of nominations.

    The Oscars miss for sure (a lot), especially when it comes to winners, but the nominees are generally pretty darn good.
     
  4. TJ Wells

    Trusted Prestigious

    Gonna quote Demi because he sums up my feelings about the Oscars perfectly:
    2AF4A6BB-B3D6-49A7-860D-9F87ADA8B650.png
     
  5. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    Not really. Last year was an exception.
     
    Victor Eremita likes this.
  6. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    I think unlearning attachment to the Academy Awards leads to better investment in what one can get out of cinema. I know it’s been true to my experience. Look, I like when quality films manage to buck the odds and get recognized, Parasite’s win last year was lovely. But like, I listened to the Big Picture podcast on Mank and they talked as much about the politics of the Academy and what that meant for Mank’s Oscar prospects as much as they talked about the movie itself and the former conversation is just inane.
     
  7. radiodead

    Trusted

    I think you’re ignoring a lot of Oscars history and that even when they get it wrong, which as I said is quite a bit, it is still interesting and sparks conversation about film history and how relevant/irrelevant an Oscar win even is. I’d argue sometimes losing Best Picture can be better for a film long term. Everyone knows the Oscars aren’t the be all end all. It’s a great night to celebrate film and film history.
     
  8. Morrissey

    Trusted

    How is music more subjective than movies?
     
    Victor Eremita likes this.
  9. radiodead

    Trusted

    Following the Oscars can be completely separate from how you interact with film....
     
  10. radiodead

    Trusted

    A poor choice of wording there, I generally feel like there is more agreement in quality among Oscar nominees vs Grammy nominees.
     
  11. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    It’s a night that celebrates mainstream American film and mainstream American film history. It’s a yearly event where a lot of attention goes to a lot of mediocre movies. I know the Oscars and their history well. Heck, I watch them every year. But I do think it benefits the average viewer to detach any value from them and recognize how fundamentally flawed they are.
     
    Victor Eremita likes this.
  12. radiodead

    Trusted

    My wife is what I would call an average viewer. She doesn’t give a shit about Bergman, Fellini, Varda, Kurosawa or any other titan of filmmaking.
    And telling her to detach Oscar value from the films is gonna make her roll her eyes, not get into film.

    I think you’re overstating the amount of people that say “this film is good because it won an Oscar”.
     
  13. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    I do not enjoy how, this time of year, a movie comes out and a good portion of the response is debating Oscar prospects instead of the merits of the film itself. I believe detaching oneself from the Oscars as valuable opens up a whole world of cinema beyond the scope of what the Academy recognizes. I don’t understand how that’s not a good thing, even for casual viewers.

    More Moonlights and Parasites will happen the less studios and audiences care about Oscars. More Green Books and King’s Speeches happen the more people care about them.
     
    Victor Eremita likes this.
  14. radiodead

    Trusted

    And all I’m saying is that my love for the Oscars doesn’t interfere with my love for film, you can do both. I think you’re trying to have people care about the Oscars the exact right amount.

    Moonlight and Parasite both won under this current system that we are arguing about. So did studios and audiences care less that year? I would argue audiences cared more, because the passion for those films (besides how great they are) is to me what pushed them into the top spot.
     
  15. Morrissey

    Trusted

    It isn't so much "this film is good because it won an Oscar" as it is "I will see these because they were nominated or won an Oscar". There are plenty of people who will see the occasional good Oscar winner and get mad because it isn't the generic Oscar film they were expecting. A lot of groans and disappointments in my theater for movies like No Country for Old Men and Parasite.

    Casual film fans only see a handful of films a year, and the Oscars drive that viewership for a certain group of people, just like blockbusters drive it for another group of people. The Oscars drive revenue toward a certain type of film, and a portion of the film industry contorts itself to make that type of film. They aren't the biggest financial successes and they aren't the most critically acclaimed; they are this weird third type of film that you have to learn about the Oscars to recognize. Of course, sometimes you make an Oscar film and it doesn't get nominated for a variety of reasons, which means the film loses money and everyone wasted their time.

    It isn't just the Oscars, it is all awards shows because of the subjectivity of art. Sports can have championships because the goal of a bunch of kids playing football in the yard is the same as a professional team; win the game. There aren't really diverging interests; there are times when teams either stop trying because they clinched a playoff spot or play backups because they have been eliminated, but everyone agrees those are lesser quality games. It would be like if the goal of a football game was suddenly not to win but to convert the most second down plays.
     
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  16. radiodead

    Trusted

    So we are talking about Oscar bait? Like Hillbilly Elegy?
     
  17. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    I think it’s more interesting to talk about movies than talk about which movies deserves what awards. The Oscars create a flawed conversation based as much on what the Academy likes than critical discussion of what a film is and how it works or doesn’t work.
     
    CarpetElf likes this.
  18. CarpetElf

    douglas Prestigious

    It's more so just the sheer amount. I listen to 200+ new albums a year. I never get close to 50 new movies a year. It's more likely that the Oscars get a nomination right at least. It's at least likely enough to where we can criticize the Academy. The Grammys are so off that it's not even worth bringing up.

    I actually changed my opinion on this while typing lol. there are far fewer films, therefore it should be EASIER for the academy to watch the necessary ones.
     
  19. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    But they don’t
     
    Victor Eremita likes this.
  20. radiodead

    Trusted

    The problem is is that there are A LOT of people who love movies like The King’s Speech, The Help, Forrest Gump and Green Book. Far more than angry cinephiles who can’t grasp why the Academy doesn’t just retroactively give 7 best picture awards to Tarkovsky.

    You’re never going to get those average viewers to stop caring so much about the Oscars so better art can be recognized. They don’t care about that. My mother in law thinks The Judge is the best movie ever made, and there are far more of her than us.
     
  21. phaynes12

    https://expertfrowner.bandcamp.com/ Prestigious

    it was 12 minutes of a 90 minute podcast. they spent as much time talking about Amanda Seyfried’s performance.
     
  22. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    You’re doing a lot of projecting on to “angry cinephiles” but you’re also assuming that an audience’s taste is fixed. Like studios who think people will only go to the theater to see Star Wars or superheroes so that’s all they make. Casual audiences in the 40s and 70s saw plenty of great mainstream stuff. If more good movies get made, real, adult movies about real things, even if they’re conventionally structured, casual audiences will enjoy them plenty.
     
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  23. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    fair enough, should have said it “felt like” as much. It was boring!
     
    phaynes12 likes this.
  24. phaynes12

    https://expertfrowner.bandcamp.com/ Prestigious

    the oscars aren’t nominating black widow for best picture next year. this is a foolish comparison. the kings speech sucks. it isn’t fucking cats. we aren’t getting the grammys-comparison of best picture quality movies that we get for album of the year. you can hate the oscars all you want (they’re very dumb), but a lot of these arguments are in bad faith
     
  25. phaynes12

    https://expertfrowner.bandcamp.com/ Prestigious

    they are a good podcast but they have duds. it was definitely a dud, agreed.
     
    Nathan likes this.