Mac Demarco - This Old Dog (May 5, 2017) Album • Page 5

I posted the link on the first page, always recommend reading for yourself and drawing your own conclusions!

 

Yeah I mean plus the fact that his music is really boring, I don't understand how this guy has such an avid fanbase. I think some of his fans actually like him for his antics and on stage persona more than anything, which makes it even more troubling to me.

 

I posted my thoughts on the first page when this came up. I don't really know if it's entirely comparable to the PWR BTTM situation (he didn't rape someone, he also wasn't the one with his dick out), but it's still weird and super shitty for sure. But I'll also admit my own biases because his music kept me from hurting/killing myself in college, so I don't really know what else to say other than it sucks, I hold him accountable and I hope it never happens again/he speaks out about it someday. But his music does something important for myself and my mental health so I'm sorry if that's selfish but ultimately I'm going to keep listening

 

I guess for me, a lot of it goes back to that conversation that was being had when the Deafheaven tweets came out about drawing your own lines. It's a constant balancing act between wanting to be a responsible community member and not supporting the wrong people, but also admitting your own biases to yourself and being okay with that sometimes. Literally all of my faves are problematic (Kanye, Morrissey, Mac, Sun Kil Moon, FJM) and that really sucks but it's also caused me to do a lot of thinking about where I draw my lines and what I'm willing to throw money at. And in some cases, I do believe it is possible to condemn someone's actions while enjoying/admiring/analyzing their art and for me this is one of those cases

 

I'm definitely not trying to equate the two because I agree with you, I moreso meant that while that topic is on everybody's minds it's a good time to address this and figure out where exactly we draw the line. There are a lot of grey areas in these situations and I am not in any position to tell you what to listen to, especially given account of what the music has done for you. I also think we all hold biases often unconsciously so I'm more interested in the psychology of it - Mac as indie straight darling - so this is okay but that isn't. While he didn't do anything, I'm sure if you had a younger sibling and a dude in a local band filmed his friend jerking off in front of them it would be a different story. We don't know how the "audience" felt or how it affected them (and I'd go out on a limb and assume negatively) and beyond that there is acknowledgement and admittance but zero remorse or regret. That response leads me to
believe it is as funny to this day to Mac as it was while it was happening which is what bothers me more than anything. A simple "Im sorry that was fucked up" would have helped me let it go but he couldn't even offer that. I think you have every right to keep listening to him if it helps you, I just don't want this to be entirely overlooked by the indie community simply because "we like him" when if we didn't like him, it sure as hell would not be. I'm on mobile so I hope this all made sense.

 

also, saw your prior post and it's interesting and I don't entirely disagree and do think it is up to the individual and not something in which to take up moral high ground. I also do think problematic behaviour needs to be treated as such and not swept under the rug. All good points for discussion but as of where I'm at and the person I want to be - there have been atleast 50 great records worth listening to this year and I am making a personal decision that this won't be one of em.

 

The gender/orientation aspect of the PWR BTTM situation is being discussed a lot in that thread and it's super important and definitely plays an overall role in situations like this

 

@Aaron Mook appreciate the open dialogue, you were heard!

 

the mac stuff has been going around facebook a lot these last couple days

glad that people are finally starting to notice more

 

Just gonna say that he played a great show in Michigan last night. And with that I'll be leaving the thread.

 

while yes, a lot of the pwr bttm situation had to do with the community around them being very in touch with how serious the allegations are and demanding immediate accountability, it still sucks seeing a queer band go down so quickly while a bunch of these straight white dudes (mac, michael gira, all these pop punk bros, surfer blood guy) continue to profit from the community.

 

i wouldn't really say "it sucks". i think it's good that the community itself, not just the music community but the lgbt+ community, has held pwr bttm accountable. maybe going forward pwr bttm will be the leading example for people and help shape any future occurances.

i also think putting mac into that list is pretty weird, given the others' transgressions but idk

 

yeah, i mean, what happened to them is well deserved. and i know that the community had a lot to do with it, but yeah. the trends just seem odd here how many white dudes just seem to get off free

mac definitely deserves to be part of this. that is sexual abuse, with kids involved nonetheless. it may not be to the disgusting level of some of the other actions but at the same time it deserves legitimate accountability. and the acknowledgement of the occasion without any apology and more of just shrugging it off and laughing requires far more than just another apology.

 

yeah i get what you mean. I guess i'm just being optimistic that there will be a turning point somewhere and I think this might be it. it's a case of the bigger they are the harder they fall though. pwr bttm were seen as a band that cared deeply about the safety of their fans and safe spaces. when you have a band or person doing that you will attract a certain fanbase. when you violate what you stand for they turn.

 

i hope so too. the fact that this has come back up again in the last week by at least some people is the first step that people are looking back at problematic things and looking at it a different way now

 

yeah and for sure mac needs to be held accountable. i wasn't trying to defend him or anything his response to the situation was horrible and he needs to grow up in a lot of ways

 

definitely. these are the conversations that need to be brought up more often and discussed rather than put aside due to people feeling uncomfortable around them. we won't ever get to a point of better accountability if we don't discuss the ways to actually do it

 

@cwhit im not trying to call you out but I very much feel you at not allowing people to draw their own lines in a situation where personal discretion is much more of a factor than any of the other cases you mentioned.

 

yep and the more we have the conversations and dialogue as a community the more the labels and other influential members of the industry will start to take notice and start doing the right thing. like polyvinyl this week.

 

is there really a personal discretion factor here? mac going along with and egging along his friend performing a sexual action in front of kids? and then not being apologetic at all when it was brought up? it's definitely not as obviously horrible as the others but it still seems like a really bad thing

that's my view at least

 

I totally think people should be able to draw their own lines. I just know if some hype musician filmed his friend jerking off in front of me and my sixteen year old friends at a party and had zero remorse about it when confronted about it later on in life, my opinion of that dude would be sour at best.

People can listen to what they want - I just don't like that he seems to be immune to criticism which is the main reason I raise this point consistently

 

Yes, him not showing remorse sours the situation, I agree. But otherwise, I don't agree that him filming his friend doing that should be held to the same level as physical sexual assault.

 

Also was it actually kids or minors? Because I think that's something to consider too. Age of consent here is 16, so this may also play into my perspective of the situation.

 

Personal discretion is always a factor. It's a factor in the pwr bttm case. Just seems the unanimous take is that that was a clear line in the sand. You yourself are saying the mac thing isn't as obviously horrible.

 

And let's not forget the fallout with pwr bttm wasn't just from fans. Opening bands pulled out of tours, touring members quit, management and labels left, venues cancelled shows. It wasn't just the fans.