Louis Posen of Hopeless Records

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Recently I was able to schedule a Zoom call with the owner of Hopeless Records, Louis Posen, to discuss his recent partnership with Fat Wreck Chords. In this interview, I asked Louis about how he will be honoring the legacy of Fat Wreck Chords in upcoming vinyl reissues, his favorite Hopeless Records’ bands and albums, and how he navigated a career path in the music industry. You can check out the Hopeless Records catalog here.

Thank you so much for your time today, Louis! What is the story behind partnering up with Fat Wreck Chords?

I’ve known Fat Wreck Chords for 30 plus years, and the story goes back that far. When I was in film school at Cal State Northridge, I had a project to do a film and decided to do a music video and I cold called NoFX and Green Day, who both answered their phones, and I ended up doing a music video for NoFX. So that was for the song “Bob” from the album White Trash Two Heebs and a Bean. I’ve been friends with Mike ever since, and when I started Hopeless in 1993 he was the only one I knew that owned a record label. So he and his wife at the time, Erin, the Co-owners, invited me up to San Francisco to see their offices and learn how to start and run a record label. And I’ve been grateful ever since and a full circle came around when they were looking to find the right partner to take over the day to day operations of Fat Wreck Chords. Someone who understood the history of the label, who knew the artists, knew the company values, and how they wanted things to run. Luckily, they thought of me and us and that we wouldn’t be the right partners, and here we are today.

That’s awesome. Did you learn any lessons along the way from either Mike or anybody else that kind of helped you get off the ground running with Hopeless Records?

A ton. I had no experience. I went and bought a book called “How To Run An Independent Record Label”, and between that, Mike, Erin and their team telling me, “oh, here’s where you could get your records manufactured. Here’s where you could print jackets, how you need to master your records.” I didn’t know anything about the process, so all of it was a learning lesson for me.

What are some of your favorite bands on that roster from Fat Wreck?

Well, the Fat roster, like the Hopeless roster, those are my step children. Now this roster of my children, there’s never a favorite, there’s only different kids with different personalities. But for me, there wouldn’t be a Hopeless without Fat, and there wouldn’t be a Hopeless without those early Fat albums. I put the trilogy for me in that sort of ‘92-’93 area, which was when I remember buying the NoFX album, The Longest Line, which is still one of my favorites. And the Propagandhi record, How to Clean Everything. I mean, those were, and still are incredible records, and I wouldn’t have gotten into this business if those records didn’t inspire me, and those artists didn’t inspire me.

Yeah, and I think one of my earliest memories of getting a Fat Wreck compilation was going to Best Buy, and they packaged it with the other various artist albums. Do you remember anything that you learned from either Mike or Fat Wreck about comps in general, especially the power of them during the CD boom of the 90s and early 2000s?

Fat Wreck Chords was the pioneer of the low price compilation, Fat Music for Fat People. We all copied it! Epitaph did with Punk-O-Rama, Hopeless did with Hopelessly Devoted. So they were the beginning of that. And it was a great idea, because it was a way for people to discover new artists. They knew the label. They knew that they would trust the label and the type of artists that they would want to work with. And then the hero was getting it for two bucks or three bucks, and you’re gonna have 15-20 tracks to be able to hear. And I found out a lot of artists from those compilations myself, and I’m sure many other fans did too.

Absolutely, yeah. And I think it was coming out around the same time as the iTunes era of like 99 cents a song. So it was like a no brainer to buy like, a $5 compilation with 50 tracks on it. You know what I mean? What can fans of this Fat Wreck catalog expect with a partnership with Hopeless Records? Do you have plans for a ton of vinyl reissues? What’s your game plan for mapping out this huge catalog?

Yeah, our first step is to make sure we keep the brand intact. We treat it the way that Mike and Erin would want it to be treated and the artists would, so everything will stay on Fat Wreck Chords. There won’t be the Hopeless logo on these records. It’ll stay being a Fat Wreck Chords logo. And then we’re going to take our global infrastructure, resources, partnerships, and try to elevate it as much as we can for people to understand how iconic this roster is and these albums are. And so you’re gonna see vinyl reissues, you’re gonna see anniversary issues, special releases that have never come out before. And then we’re going to run a 35 year anniversary campaign next year, with all the festivals and other events, to celebrate Fat, the catalog, and the artists.

That’s awesome, man! Congrats on all that cool stuff going on. So you guys created the Hopeless Foundation, and also in 2024 you established the Hopeless Music Academy. How are those two charitable entities going so far, and what would you like to share about their positive impact on each one?

So we started in 1999 what we called Sub City, which is now the Hopeless Foundation. And under the Hopeless Foundation is the Sub City program that Hopeless runs, where we connect artists with causes that they and their fans care about. We’ve been doing this for a long time. We’ve raised over $3 million for 150 charity charitable initiatives, one of the signature programs, the Songs That Saved My Life, where artists cover a song that got them through a tough time in their life, allow them to talk about why they picked that song, and how it got them through that tough time. And then have the proceeds from those releases go to mental health and suicide prevention charities. Last year, we decided we want to run our own program and not just help fund other people’s programs. And that’s where the Hopeless Music Academy was born. We had already subsidized a recording studio in a local drop in center for at risk kids at a place called New Directions For Youth in North Hollywood and Los Angeles, and so we try to build on that and provide a full program for these students to be able to not just learn about the studio and recording, but also learn what happens next. How do you get it distributed? How do you market it? What are all the jobs that go into, sales, marketing, distribution, the areas in which artists need support in order to be able to do what they’re doing. And so we have after school classes, a summer camp, and soon to be mentorship and internship programs, scholarship programs, and a job placement so these kids can get into the music industry, whether it be on the creative side or on the business side.

That’s incredible. And congrats on everything that you’re doing for the communities, the music community, and everything like that too.

Well, we feel so lucky to be able to do what we’re doing. I used to work at a yogurt store. Nothing wrong with that. I love yogurt, but I’m grateful every day to be able to work in music and be able to be around art that you love and that you want others to be able to to be listened to and be affected by. So we’re just so grateful, and we want to be able to push that gratitude forward and help as many people as we can. Starting with our own community and building outward.

That’s great. And what advice would you give to somebody if they wanted to start a record label?

If it’s something you’re passionate about, I think it’s a better time than ever to start a label. The barrier for entry is way lower than it used to be. The cost of recording is way lower. It’s much easier to get distribution. It’s much easier to market, as far as costs go. The challenge now is there’s 150,000 songs coming out every day. And how do you stand out amongst all that music? Well, some of it’s not music, but some of it is. And so I think that’s the challenge. Now there’s a little bit of a monetization challenge with streaming, so that is something that someone has to work through. And how do I pay for recording and marketing when I’m getting paid 35 cents a stream? But I still think there’s a lot of opportunity there. And if it’s something you’re passionate about, I would do it. I. For me, the most important thing is one, you love it too. You surround yourself with great people, and that you conduct yourself with the principles and values that you believe in, so that you can create a reputation that’s sustainable. I always feel like if you’re going to study music, you should probably study psychology, because this is really a team sport. You don’t really do this on your own, so you have to understand other people, and you have to understand how to work with them, because we got to do this together.

Absolutely. Can you think of how the vinyl industry has shifted since the early days of the record label of ‘93 to now?

Vinyl has gone through different iterations over the years. It was very big in the early 90s, we started as the first release was a Guttermouth 7 inch, and then in the 2000s it started to decrease. CDs were really the physical format choice, and then in the last eight years or so, vinyl’s definitely made a comeback, and CDs were decreasing. But I’m sure you’ve heard this before.

Yeah, CDs are making a comeback, along with cassettes and everything else for physical media. I think people just got bored during the pandemic.

Yeah, which helped with vinyl. But I think vinyl has gotten very expensive. It’s a large format, hard to buy at a show, and carry it around. So we are seeing a lot of people wanting to get the CD. It’s less expensive, it’s easy to carry. It’s easy to put in a dorm room with a CD player. And you still get to support the artists that you love. You still get to read the liner notes, and you own something from the artist. It’s not just clicking a button. And it’s kind of cool to see the new generation care about that, and not just want to stream. I think streaming is amazing, but it’s really cool when someone wants something more to be more closely connected to the artist.

So to that point, do you try to make it a habit of when you come up with a new release and stuff like that, you want to make sure you always have the CD/vinyl always in stock, for the most part, in your store?

We do that for most of our releases when album releases come out too, the physical formats come out at the same time as the digital. Doesn’t always work that way, but I’d say 90+ percent of the time it’s important, because the most serious fans are the ones that are going to want the vinyl on the CD, and we want to super serve the most dedicated fan. We always work our way up. We’re a bottom up artist, development company, not a top down <company> so we don’t lead with, “okay, let’s get on the radio, and then we’ll find serious fans later.” Or, “let’s find serious fans, super serve them, and then we can cross stuff into the mainstream after that….”

And you kind of talked about not picking favorites a little bit. But do you have any particular records that you’ve put out that you’re just incredibly proud of either the band itself, where they took an artistic leap of faith kind of thing, and it all worked out for your label? Can you think of any of those memories?

Yeah, there’s been a lot of them. And some of the biggest risk takers are the ones who have done the best. One that comes to mind is Avenged Sevenfold. When we signed them, there were as many or more haters than there were lovers. And when those reviews came in for Sounding the Seventh Trumpet, the first record, I mean, they were scathing. We used to put them up on our wall as motivation, and we just love that the band didn’t veer from their vision. Yeah, okay, people don’t like it. That’s cool. They will, because what we’re doing is awesome. We’re gonna love it.

And they’ve really reinvented themselves over the years too. So that’s another sign of a true artist, too.

Totally! So that one comes to mind. We have a newer artist now, TX2, that reminds me a lot of them. I’m so full, not in musical style, but sort of unabashedly, has a clear vision for what it is, and has as many haters as lovers.

Nice! And can you think of a moment in time where somebody really fit the vision of Hopeless Records?

Most of them do. I mean, we had a pretty good record of helping artists get to levels that they can make a career out of what they do. The one that comes to mind is All Time Low. We signed them when they were in high school. And, I don’t think they had been out of the Baltimore area. And it was pretty amazing watching that development process. And it is just getting bigger and bigger. Day after day, month after month, and watching these guys experience each thing for the first time was amazing. The first time they went into an Apple session, the first time they went on MTV, the first time they won a big award. First time doing an arena show. It was incredible to watch it go from shows with 10 people to what it became today.

And I’m actually from the DC area, so yeah, I’ve met them a couple of times. They’re great guys.

Yeah, totally. Very nice to work with and everything like that.

So, if you could sign any band, assuming they’re a free agent today, who would that be? And how do you think they would fit into the Hopeless/Fat Wreck family?

Let’s see, probably my first choice would be The Beatles.<Laughter> Just feel like that might work out for themselves. I feel like we could do well with them. They are pretty good songwriters. I don’t know, there’s so many great artists over the years. I mean, in the early days, I wish we could have signed Operation Ivy, a huge influence on me and us, or the band X, which was the first punk show I ever saw when I was 12 years old. We actually talked to John Doe from X in the early years about doing a solo record for him. Social Distortion still plays, and I’d love to work with them one day. A huge influence on me. But yeah, probably The Beatles. I have a 64 zenith turntable in my house. I love it. My favorite thing is to put on a Beatles record and just sit there and have a glass of wine and appreciate incredible songwriting, incredible performances. Talk about innovating and changing their sound. Every record is totally different, but as amazing as the last one. That’s the kind of thing we look for.

That’s awesome. So the last question I have for you is, what would be your top five favorite albums, regardless of label and stuff like that. What are the ones you look towards in your own personal collection?

It changes all the time. Kinda like I said, I listen to a lot of Beatles. I listened to a lot of The Clash. I listened to a lot of 80s, New Wave stuff with my wife, because it’s something we share from our childhood. Doesn’t sound as good on the ‘64 Zenith, but the Beatles records do, because sonically, it wasn’t meant to be on that kind of turntable…but it’s still an amazing record with amazing songwriting and performance

And how big is your collection? If you don’t mind me asking, about how many records do you own?

I’m not a huge collector. I probably have 700 vinyl records. So it’s cool. We got a nice sort of rack system that looks like you’re in an old Tower Records. And so it’s fun. And we have the dividers, alphabetized, so when friends come over, they love to flip through there like they’re at the store, and pick something out and play it so it’s a fun thing to do together and share music in that kind of way.

Any last words for fans of Hopeless or Fat Wreck Chords about things to keep an eye out for?

Thank you for putting a spotlight on what we do. Thank you to our team. We have an amazing team at Hopeless and Fat. We’ve got amazing partners we work with and, of course, to all of our artists…we wouldn’t be able to do this without them.

Absolutely, it was great connecting with you, Louis, and enjoy the rest of your day and your weekend!

Thanks for doing this, Adam!

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