Kanye West - Jesus is King (September 27, 2019) Album • Page 54

Discussion in 'Music Forum' started by Blainer93, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

  2. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

    It's a thankless position, I truly believe that no matter what he does or doesn't do, he will get criticized on the internet for even taking the position.
     
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  3. The Lucky Moose

    I'm Emotional, I Hug the Block Prestigious

    Hov did that / So hopefully you won't have to go through that
     
  4. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

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  5. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

    I mean, he’s literally a tool. The NFL is using him. I’m not saying potential good hasn’t come out of it in terms of fundraising but it all services PR for the NFL to whitewash Kap.

    Jay should have aligned himself with Kap, not the NFL. You can raise money with Kap’s charities and champion the blackballed worker, not the blackballing corporation. Jay didn’t. He partnered with the corporation because he’s very rich and maybe well intentioned but completely oblivious. You can tell because he thought Kap turned a “legitimate” workout (scheduled at the last second on a Friday when teams are fully in prep for the Sunday games, rather than on the traditional Tuesday free agent workout day) into a “publicity stunt”. You say you don’t follow sports, so trust someone who does: the whole workout was a publicity stunt for the NFL in the first place and it’s telling where Jay aligns. I love him and grew up with his music having a huge influence on guiding my taste. He is also a tool.
     
  6. The Lucky Moose

    I'm Emotional, I Hug the Block Prestigious

    I think calling Jay Z, of all people, oblivious and a literal tool probably is pretty overboard. I dare to assume he has a better grip on the situation than you do.
     
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  7. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

    Kap doesn’t speak a lot about the controversies in his orbit. “Sources” about his conversation with Jay are cited in the Atlantic article, though I suppose that doesn’t mean much to you
     
  8. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

    The irony of you saying "it doesn't mean much to you" when you are indeed SO strong on one side of this isn't over my head.

    I saw his girlfriend's tweet about them not talking. And then a football player mentioned that the news moved eyes away from a different controversy. The rest are "sources"

    I'm not coming at this from a one-sided thing, I am just genuinely curious what Kaepernick himself thinks about this, is that so much to wonder?
     
  9. Zilla

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  10. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

    No, I’m just telling you that he doesn’t usually comment at length about the controversies regarding the NFL and social justice (though on the day Jay’s partnership was announced, he subtweeted it). He has a memoir coming out in the near future, maybe he’ll expound on the issue there.

    As for strongly being on one side, yes, I’m strongly on Colin Kaepernick’s side over the corporation and the billionaire
     
  11. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

    I completely agree that he is not at all in the same position as the players, and I agree that the things he has said have been very privileged... but again, is progress not being made? Are things not happening? In a perfect world, would this have been a partnership with Jay-z, Kaepernick and the NFL? Yeah probably, but we know the NFL is shitty so aren't small steps forward better than more steps back?
     
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  12. Zilla

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  13. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

    See, this is the problem. I am obviously on Kaepernick's side of this thing. I do not care at all about sports or the NFL. My point is not that we need to take sides, my point is that there is a HUGE corporation that is not going away any time soon, at all. I personally think that things moving in a positive direction is better than no movement at all.
     
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  14. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

    And I’m saying that Jay Z could have thrown his weight and influence anywhere— he chose the NFL. This is not the only possible outcome where progress could have been made. It wasn’t “partner with the NFL or nothing” for Jay.
     
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  15. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

    I just feel like this is a weird stance, but maybe that's just me. I hate arguments of "blah blah COULD have done xyz instead." Well yeah, there's literally thousands of things that anyone COULD have done, but he didn't. He partnered with the NFL and positive changes HAVE happened. And I truly hope more positive things happen also. I agree that the way this is happening is FAR from ideal, but that comes with the territory of the NFL. I still think that doing something is better than doing nothing.
     
  16. Zilla

    Trusted

    It was a more that seemed more cosmetic than progressive. The NFL wanted Jay-Z for their halftime show and he said no (So did Rihanna, Cardi, etc.) and said he was on the side of Kaep. Then when they threw a bunch of money at him to give a position of managing music for the halftime show and making clothes and booking concerts like Meghan Trainor, he jumped on without Kaep and said dumb shit like “We’re beyond kneeling,” as if he ever kneeled. Could something good come from it? Of course. Did he handle it all wrong? I say yes.
     
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  17. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

    I think if you’ve seen the Kap saga play out the way it has, and opt to partner with the league without consulting him, you’re a tool. Any good you do the NFL is going to use as PR for why they’re actually progressive, forget about the whole Kaepernick thing, we’ll air a tribute to the flag before the Super Bowl to reset and get back to the pre-Kap status quo where we pretend we’re non-political but salute the troops every Sunday before every game. Fundraising is great but I think Jay actively harmed Kap’s cause at the same time.
     
  18. The Lucky Moose

    I'm Emotional, I Hug the Block Prestigious

    Which is clearly what Jay thinks. People can disagree with that but I don’t think it makes Jay a, uh, tool.
     
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  19. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

    I think I can agree with most all of this. I agree that the WAY this has all happened is far, far, far from ideal.
     
    Zilla likes this.
  20. Zilla

    Trusted

    My final thought on it is Jay-Z is a billionaire. As he once said, the NFL needs him, not the other way around. He could set up his own social justice initiative and make it happen, but he’d rather be part of NFL’s PR wing.
     
  21. irthesteve

    formerly irthesteve Prestigious

    I think we agree on most of the overarching thoughts of this situation, but you are much more on the pessimist side and I am more on the optimist side. I don't think this is a bad thing at all, we're obviously allowed to feel differently, but I think that's what it comes down in this conversation. I know that shitty things have, and continue to happen, but I see progress
     
  22. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

     
  23. The Lucky Moose

    I'm Emotional, I Hug the Block Prestigious

    Even if all that were true, which it might or might not be, I personally think it’s wrong to say this somehow now defines Jay Z as a person and his legacy.
     
  24. The Lucky Moose

    I'm Emotional, I Hug the Block Prestigious

    It’s very easy to judge someone for wanting to work in “the system” to change it (and, yes, to make money from it) when you haven’t spent half your life as far away from it as Jay has. That being said I don’t actually know you, so maybe I’m assuming too much.
     
  25. The Lucky Moose

    I'm Emotional, I Hug the Block Prestigious

    Also when Jay, in another context, tried to offer an alternative to “the system” with Tidal, which is so much more artist and art friendly than Spotify and Apple Music, people clowned him too, including on here