Justice League (Zack Snyder, November 17, 2017) Movie • Page 44

I actually still need to read it. I’ll definitely be doing that before it’s out.

 

An article by CBR about overly zealous DC fans getting up in arms about Joss Whedon liking a tweet where someone claimed Steppenwolf is somehow worse than Malekith.

I don't know why, but the absurdity of this "story" brings me a lot of joy.

 

Ugh it's a comic book movie. And this movie, like most of Snyder's know that. It's fun, it's silly, it's stupid, why can't people just enjoy something for what it is, not not enjoy because they simply don't enjoy it?

 

I hope that the current slate of films coming up makes this sentiment non-existent.

I really don't think you hear it much with other genres.

 

Like the notion of comic book films get a "pass" when it comes to certain aspects of cinema?

 

I mean, when I read someone say "Its a comic book movie, leave it alone" it just doesn't resonate. There should be accountability in film making. Giving Schumacher, Ayer, Snyder, Ang Lee, whoever passes for shit films because "they are comic book movies" isn't really fair to fans. You don't see Meet the Spartans getting a pass because "its just a comedy". Or Geostorm is "Just a disaster movie". Knowing there are things inherently wrong in a film and releasing it as is makes no damn sense. These films are supposed to be servicing the people going to see them. There is a problem with all comic book films to this point, and directors don't seem to be addressing it. If Whedon really does believe that villains are an issue in comics, I'd love to see his next film do something about it. I'm tired of giving comic book movies a pass for throwing a shit villain at us who has a giant pillar of light.

Please please please let some of these new films make something else work. I'm so incredibly optimistic about X-Force, Black Panther, and a few others. I don't want this to sound like a rant for Marvel. I just have faith on their end given the directors attached.

 

I agree to an extent, I feel like in this Steppenwolf takes a back seat to characterization of the team, everyone has baggage with being a part of a team. Batman is remorseful of events of BvS, Flash and Cyborg deem themselves "the accidents" in terms of becoming metahumans, Aquaman is split between worlds, not feeling welcomes by either, Wonder Woman is dealing with what it means to be a leader and ask people to potentially die for/with her. I think Steppenwolf is similar to Hela in the the sense that he's there, he's got bad stuff to do.

Maybe my bias comes from his little one liners that talk about the new gods, Darkseid, and apokolips, I get where he's coming from, but it's certainly not earned on screen. People who have no idea what that is will certainly be lost with it, another issue BvS had.

I also think it's really hard to compare films like this to say, Logan. Just the nature of the plot and scape makes it difficult to attain similar highs.

 

On the one hand, acting like comic book films are above criticism (or below criticism?) is dumb.

On the other hand, in an age filled with superhero deconstruction, I'm personally alright with getting a film now and then that fully embraces old school comic book simplicity and isn't ashamed of it.

Anyways, I didn't expect my amusement at a tweet to lead to a serious conversation about comic book films, but hey, I guess I really should've known better, lol.

 

I mean it's an interesting conversation for sure.

JL has problems, BvS had more problems. For me, they didn't get in the way of really enjoying what they wanted to do. I don't think these films need to be heralded, I just wish they didn't get trashed so much. BvS and JL have been some of my more recent really enjoyable film experiences. I think I was smiling for most of JL.

 

It certainly can be frustrated that DC and WB have some of the best fictional characters in the medium's history, and certainly have plenty of material to feed an amazing film. Maybe Reeves Batman film can be one to start that path.

 

I'm fine with comic books films embracing simplicity, but there's a huge difference between comic book simplicity and bad moviemaking. I think the former is used to absolve instances of the latter far too much.


I'm also really over the Marvel / DC fan fight. Something that annoys me is "well Thor 3 was just 'fun' and that got good reviews JL is just 'fun' and it's getting bad ones. CONSPIRACY!!" and completely overlooking what goes into make a good fun film.


Disclaimer : haven't seen either film, that argument is just dumb and annoys me

 

But, Wonder Woman already started that path. And, I'm currently expecting Aquaman to continue said path.

I'm currently still the most interested in whatever happens with Man of Steel 2 (which probably shouldn't be called "Man of Steel 2"), which is also what interests me the most about this film. I don't care how goofy and convoluted Superman's return is in this film, as long as I get some moments where he actually feels like Superman by the end of the film, and as long as he's set up for something good in the future.

 

Speaking of Ang Lee’s HULK (another movie i really enjoy where others don’t):

Elfman absolutely recycled his Hulk theme in his JL score. The Main Hulk theme is now the “Amazon Mother Box” piece of music.

 

Superman is great in this. I think you'll get the moments you want for sure.

 

On a similar note, one of the most frustrating things about the BvS release was people claiming the film was just "made for the fans." Like, DC fans make up some of the most vocal critics of that film, so no, it's not. lol.

Anyways, I don't think the problems with BvS are gonna be that prevalent here with JL. Maybe the story will be similarly messy, but like, the story of Age of Ultron was a mess, and I still really enjoy that film while actively hating BvS. If Justice League can hit the tonal sweet spot that I need in order to gloss over narrative flaws (which it currently looks like it does), then I'll be happy. I've heard this film described as a necessary transitional film from the previous DCEU tone to the new one started with Wonder Woman; as a Marvel fan, I don't mind that kind of table-setting if the ride doesn't come to a screeching halt in the process *cough*like in IM2*cough*.

 

The plot definitely moves in a linear fashion, something's are just resolved insanely quickly.

 

Oh man, of all the unpopular superhero film opinions I can get behind, that's not one of them. I admire the narrative approach and themes, but the execution was so rough for me. The comic book panel edits were a bad fit for the story in the same way that Snyder's style was bad for Watchmen, and the cast felt kinda sleepy throughout the whole thing. I disagree with the popular criticism that a slower, more contemplative Hulk film was a mistake, but those slower, more contemplative scenes needed much more impact for that to work.

Though, I dig your superhero opinions and would be curious as to what you liked about the film.

No offense, but your tastes are clearly different enough from mine that you saying this alone doesn't fill me with excitement, lol. Not a diss on your opinions! Just an observation on how much we seem to differ. From what I've read and seen so far of this film, though, I'm certainly pretty optimistic. I hope you're right!

 

I just want superman to be super. A good honest dude who's a bit dorky that can flatten a building if he wanted, but he doesn't because he's a good dude.

One of the things I've hated about the DCEU so far is the character motivations are just odd. Nothing seems natural to said characters outside of WW. Jenkins and co. nailed why Wonder Woman wants to help people. Up till that point there wasn't a single character in the DCEU I felt wanted to help people because they were blessed with their gifts. I could honestly go on about Snyder fumbling basic things in his films all day, but that, that's what I'm disappointed about the most.

 

I mean, Superman is laughing and smiling while beating the piss out of Steppenwolf. There's a shot of him coming from top of frame slamming Steppenwolf down with a close up on his symbol, then just blasts him with heat ray. It's awesome.

 

I hope you get what you want then man. I think Superman in this is the best he's been in the DCEU and is more akin to what people have wanted from him in earlier outings.

 

I don’t want to derail the thread, but I’ve always had a soft spot for that film. More than anything, I view it as an enjoyable failure whereas others see it as utterly irredeemable. I also really love the Hulk character. I think you can do some really interesting things with him.

But, to return things back on topic, one of the things I actually think was a bona fide success about that film was its Danny Elfman score. And He has literally used the main theme from Hulk again here in JL. I’m really not happy about that. Did he think nodoby would notice? How lazy can you be?

 

Do you have the Hulk theme for comparison?

Honestly, self-plagiarism has never bothered me. Stagnation and repetition can suck, but if you have something you like that you used for a project that didn't totally work, is it so wrong to reuse that creative output in a new context? I dunno.

And, yeah, I think it's a safe bet that most people wouldn't remember the main theme from that film, lol, for better or for worse.

 

Hulk theme:

Amazon Mother Box from JL:

I get so annoyed by self-plagiarism. Like, Aaron Sorkin is unbelievable. He reuses plot lines, jokes, etc. it’s staggering really. And when i recognize it, there is that immediate moment when you are “taken out of the movie” so-to-speak, you know?

Maybe it’s just me, but I find it to be incredibly off putting. In this instance, it’s becuase I really liked the Hulk theme! I have been championing it for years. Just seems a little cheap to just recycle it here.

Anyway, I just wanted to drag Elfman a bit. Still semi-hopeful about the film.

 

The more I think about it, there was really no reason Steppenwolf could not have had practical make up for his close ups, of which there are a few.

 

I’ll be honest, this made me laugh: