Justice League (Zack Snyder, November 17, 2017) Movie • Page 18

Having a faceless/non-humanized villain would be a huge detriment to the series. Then again, I have my doubts about there being any characterization for him.

 

LEGO is the most common offender, but other merchandising does it, too. I think Ares was revealed via an action figure?

Doomsday only had a bad reveal because he looked bad. Otherwise, when and where they revealed him was perfect. Having no full trailer shots, however brief, of Ares yet is kinda dumb; how he looks should be a selling point, not a dang spoiler.

 

Completely forgot about Ares. Man, I would have loved it if they went the New 52 route with Ares. That reveal was incredible.

 

I get why they'd go back to a more traditional take on Ares, but man, that New 52 reinvention was cool. There are things in that run I'm glad didn't last (like that weird, gross male Amazons plot), but they nailed their version of Greek mythology. That cast of gods would've been so neat in film form.

 

Yeah..........

 

I feel like all the characterization is gonna be spent on the members and little to none on the villain. WB probably really wants to sell audiences on the League to get them excited about the DCEU, and I'm assuming Steppenwolf is only around for this movie and will be a cinematic stepping stone towards Darkseid.

 

I'm fine with thinly written villains in some films, as long as they service the story. If they want to spend more time on fleshing out the team members and bringing them together, an imposing villain without a deep personality could still work fine with that. I'd like him to be memorable and visually interesting, but he doesn't have to be Heath Ledger's Joker or whatever.

I do still think that holding back on Darkseid would be a terrible idea, though. Bring him in when the League thinks they're getting the upper hand, and then bring in Superman at the end to turn the tide. Teasing Darkseid in JL1 for an appearance in JL2 or 3 when Marvel is about to bring in Thanos after initially teasing him in A1 just doesn't feel like a wise choice. They've already taken a different, faster route to the team-up than Marvel did (which is a better idea than trying to copy their formula), so why not take a faster route for the big bad pulling the strings?

 

But that sounds like a four hour movie. Darkseid shouldn't be rushed to a resolution. If there are going to be films between this and part two, its going to feel really weird having a half cocked Darkseid story.

That being said, I have no idea what my expectation is for him as a villain. I feel like we should get some story about the New Gods leading into it that is more than 15 minutes of exposition. If we get that type of stuff with Steppenwolf, it could work, I guess. Have him explain why he is there, what the boomtubes are, mother boxes, what Apokolips is, etc. This movie SHOULD go the Thanos route, imo.

 

I didn't care for the New 52 Justice League "Origin" trade, but I think it proved that there's no excuse to hold out on Darkseid. You don't have to unpack the whole mythos around the character to use him. Just explain the basics, which wouldn't be hard, and then defeat him in a way that doesn't kill him so that you can go deeper with a different film down the road. There's nothing about using Steppenwolf and limiting Darkseid to a Thanos-style cameo that wouldn't be accomplished better by actually letting this first team film end with a big Superman & JL vs Darkseid set piece.

 

Problem is they already fake killed Superman. They keep fake killing people, audiences might not take it well.

 

I feel like defeating him just to have him reappear later might undermine him, particularly if his role is secondary in the first film. He SHOULD be the biggest threat the Justice League face. Mentioning the New 52 book is a good example of how it could be done. I'd love for them to introduce some kind of alternate universe vision of him annihilating the entire JL similar to how they introduced the New 52 Power Girl and Huntress. Show us that he is going to murder/enslave everyone.

 

This conversation is an interesting read, but haven't they postponed JL 2 off their slate? At the rate of them announcing all kinds of random titles like Batgirl, SS 2, Black Atom and Gotham City Sirens, we may never get a JL 2 since these movies take years to make. Every new movie that gets pushed to the forefront pushes everything else back years. I have a feeling with them trying to soft reboot the DCEU and do away with what Snyder set up, we'll never get a true JL pt 2, so everything that happens in JL needs to be pretty wrapped up IMO.

With that being said, I would love to see that ending set piece of Sups and JL vs Darkseid @Tim talked about just so we get it, even though I agree with @Henry that they would be rushing it.

God WB has this universe in a mess.....

 

This movie should just be Darkseid destroying each of them, have Flash do his thing at the end, and bam you've got a reboot with a villain strong enough to slaughter the previous cast. Except Wonder Woman, who BOOMs to Earth 2 or some shit.

I feel like the perfect cap to the Snyder-verse that would piss everyone off is having the villain win in the end.

 

I honestly just want that BvS Mad Max scene to that was plopped in the middle the movie to actually be explained and add up to something. I'm sure with all the stuff they are stuffing into JL, we'd get answers in JL 2. WB pushing that movie off to the way side makes me think they are messing with these movies yet again where they should just let the directors do their thing.

 

They should just Rebirth the universe, starting with a bearded Cavill showing up as an alternate reality's Superman who is married to Lois and has a son named Jonathan.

 

They should make this universes Superman kill the Joker and take over the planet.

 

Going full Injustice would be Snyder's wet dream and my nightmare, though Leto's Joker is the only character I'd be 100% alright seeing get brutally murdered by Superman. lol.

 

I agree that I don't want them to hold back on Darkseid, but I don't think you need him as the main villain in this film. and I think the Steppenwolf actor said something about how his character isn't just a follower of Darkseid but kind of wants all the power to himself. so I feel like that will do the film well for him to not just be like, "I'm here till Darkseid shows up"

 

I think that'd be cool to see some scenes on Apokolips that show Steppenwolf trying to over throw Darkseid or come out of his shadow. Maybe that's the reason he comes to Earth to take over?

 

Wait I don't remember seeing Steppenwolf in BvS. I remember seeing Parademons, but not him.

 

Deleted scene.

 

Oh yeah I remember him now. Cool.

 

I haven't watched the deluxe version yet, but I do think it's really weird that they kept in some awkward, distracting visions/dreams, but deleted what's essentially the first look at the sequel's villain.

Like, the weird desert Batman sequence is one of the coolest visuals in the film, but a better version of the film would've left that (or at least most of it; maybe keep an abridged version) and the dream of the Wayne graves out while putting Steppenwolf back in.

Granted, the film's problems are far deeper than that, lol. And maybe that awkward Flash appearance has a decent payoff. But, still, weird choice to overdo the dream sequences while cutting that one.

 

Agreed. The Steppenwolf scene was short enough to keep in and not only sets up the villain like you stated, but also give context to Luther talking about the bell being rung in the prison scene with Batman. Baffling why that was removed. If anything, take out that dream scene of Pa Kent. It was nice to see Costner back but that scene didn't add to anything IMO.

 

yeah, I really like the ultimate cut. but the Pa Kent scene still confuses me. personally think it's really unnecessary.