Judas and the Black Messiah (Shaka King, February 12, 2021) Movie • Page 3

i don't think we're discussing the same thing and i believe i'm part to blame for not making myself clear. I do not think the film, nor do I think Hollywood films can question or oppose power or white supremacy. that film was from the perspective of a cop. the film this thread is about, is from what I've heard from the perspective of an informant. i think overall these hollywood films cannot undercut white supremacy. the root and reason why is because the story telling limited by capitalism and capitalist interest.

 

I largely agree with that, but my original statement was just that BlacKkKlansman’s racial politics are stronger than it got credit for, because a lot of people criticized it as a pro-cop film, which I don’t agree with at all. I assumed that was your critique, sorry if I assumed incorrectly. Films that can be as strongly anti-capitalist/white supremacist as you’re talking about, yes, are extremely rare. I don’t think the perspective of a character is inherently a limitation, though, plenty of films and books are told from the perspective of people in the system they’re critiquing, though that’s not to say BlacKkKlansman or Judas and the Black Messiah reach that standard.

 

I love Angelica Jade’s writing for her perspective and knowledge she brings to every piece and I almost always disagree with her. This is another case of that, but I think we were wanting different things from this.

 

i mean, if it ain't anti-cop, its arguably pro-cop. but uh yeah, hope this movie is good.

 

yeah I appreciate her reviews even if she hates something I love but I think that's what makes good criticism

 

It is bizarre that they chose this movie to be so much about the snitch. It’s not as if Fred’s story isn’t compelling enough

 

As fantastic as Lakeith and Kaluuya are in this, I wish they got younger actors, closer to the actual age of Fred and O'Neal. Lakeith playing somebody who's supposed to be 17 is weirdly distracting.

But yeah, I can't speak on the accuracy of it all but I thought it was really good. Looks great, incredible performances, awesome score. And overall fucking infuriating that things are seemingly no better today

 

Also Martin Sheen straight up looks fake in this. It's like they did some Irishman age regression effect to make him look...his actual age? Something about his face was just not right.

 

could it have been the makeup perhaps

 

shitty makeup then

 

He looked like J. Edgar Hoover to me ...?

The makeup wasn't great or anything but I just think it's weird to harp on things like that and the age of the actors playing the leads.

 

I think the age things matters

 

I think the age of the actors is a very valid criticism. The movie doesn't really make it clear how young these men are until the postscript. Not to defend O'Neal, but it's an extremely different viewing experience if you think he's a grown man vs being a 17 year old kid.

 

That's a problem. Bringing it up near the beginning needed to be done.

I do think Kaluuya can pass as Fred Hampton. Hampton does not look very young in pictures I've seen of him.

 

Just put this on

 

Ehhhhhhhh, didn't care all that much about this. Feels like it tried to cover several different ideas and topics and themes, without meaningfully delving deep enough into any one thing. Felt more like a movie about the informant than about Fred, when I went into it thinking it'd tilt the other direction. Nothing really moved me or spoke to me; the ending didn't have any kind of payoff like I thought it would. Maybe it was their intent to try and touch on everything happening at this time, but I personally would have preferred more focus. My thoughts might change with more time and reflection, but yeah

 

I thought it fucking rocked. Didn’t sanitize or whitewash history nearly as much as I worried about, portrayed the US government for being exactly as disgusting as it is, and the acting was great. Definitely had some complaints about the age things though, like others in here have said. I’d also have liked some more time spent on Hampton’s politics, but I felt like the focus of the movie was more on the gruesome and horrific tactics of the feds and how they gutted a movement than it was about Hampton himself.

O’Neil was portrayed well. The feds have been taking advantage of people who committed petty crime to rat on political targets for over a century now. He was some dude who was taken advantage of. A lot of people seem to feel as if the portrayal makes it out like this was just some dude who decided to rat out the Panthers, and not a guy they leveraged under threat of ruining his life.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq...messiah-shaka-king-interview-fred-hampton/amp

Also, thought this was cool to read from King:


GQ: There's a moment early in the film where Hampton famously mentions socialism being the answer to capitalism rather than Black capitalism—which he calls a stopgap tactic, but not the solution. There’s a longstanding debate between people who lean into capitalism versus others who embrace socialism. What do you want people on both sides to take away from this film with regards to that specific conversation?

King: I don't believe in Black capitalism. I don't think it works at all. All it does is empower a very minute percentage of Black people, which makes it useless. Capitalism is just self-serving, ultimately. And that's why we put that line at the top, just to let you know: "Nah." I know people assume, because it's a movie being distributed by Warner Bros., that we're going to make Fred Hampton a liberal or something. But I just wanted people to know, up front, that's not this movie. In terms of what we want people to take from it, I really do think Fred and the Panthers had the answers. So ideally, these are the heroes of our film. I want people to come away from this movie and learn about them and what they stood for and, hopefully, be as affected by their ideology as I have been.

 

I enjoyed this. Very good performances from everyone in it.

 

As expected, this is a damn good film.

 

Performances were solid. Need to read more on both sides after watching

 

Related - But Jesse Plemons is so good at playing calculating assholes.

 

The trajectory of Plemons career makes me so happy

 

The dude is the next Phillip Seymour Hoffman

 

Fitting that he played his son in The Master