Jack White Gives Speech on Gender Equity

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Melody Bot

    Your friendly little forum bot. Staff Member

    This article has been imported from chorus.fm for discussion. All of the forum rules still apply.

    Jack White gave a speech yesterday in Nashville on gender equity.


    It is embarrassing that in 2016 there are any differences in benefits or wages between genders in our society. Gender equity is something that should’ve been solved a century ago worldwide, and it is sad that we even need to address it. If the person does the work, the benefits of doing that work, should be equal among all human beings.

     
  2. skogsraet

    Trusted Supporter

    He touched upon a lot of important things in this speech, but I'm really glad he made a point of saying his business is doing just fine with the benefits he's giving his employees as well as the $15/hr starting wage. I've always agreed we should have a living wage but it's good to see a surviving and thriving example that it's possible.
     
  3. Kizwiz

    Regular

    What's more embarrassing is people still not understanding how the wage gap works. Earning more is not equivelant to being paid more.

    The amount of people who think the difference is 78 cents to the man's dollar in the same job is ridiculous. That's median annual earnings which isn't factoring job title, let alone hours worked, education, negotiated salary, etc. Plus the narrative falls a bit flat when they realise Asian Men comfortably earn the most.

    More can be done (ie more employment opportunities, especially in higher sectors) but we need to stop being disingenuous with the facts.
     
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  5. Chaplain Tappman

    Trusted Prestigious

    women still earn less in the same job (90 cents on the dollar), and the fact that they are more likely to work in jobs that lower the average to 78cents/dollar is as bad if not worse than the idea that they earn that much less in equal jobs.
     
  6. iCarly Rae Jepsen

    never cursed your name Prestigious

    I'm torn because glad he's talking about this but historically he's been controlling towards women

    Jack White's Women Problem
     
  7. Kizwiz Jul 14, 2016
    (Last edited: Jul 14, 2016)
    Kizwiz

    Regular

    Correct, although it's more around ~93 cents to the dollar. That figure hasn't represented other factors like negotiated salary, when men are 4x more likely to negotiate. But the problem there is women are often turned down when negotiating. So yes, more can be done there (ie the "Ban Bossy" campaign).

    But nonetheless, media outlets like Buzzfeed are still publishing misinformation:-

    Because it's not 78 cents to the dollar in the same job. Plus that's the average white women to white men's earnings. It's biggest contrast is Latino women to Asian Men. Races play a factor too. We cannot ignore that either.

    How is it bad? If women are deliberately being pushed towards those STEM job fields, then yes. We can work on that influence.
    But Engineering jobs are understandably going to earn you more than social care work.
    [​IMG]
    Source: No, Women Don’t Make Less Money Than Men figures compiled from the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.
     
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  8. St. Nate

    Dark Mode? Never Heard of It... Prestigious

    As an Asian man I always hate this statistic as it groups together people from various different backgrounds into one fraudulent monolithic identity. If you actually break it down there is a wide disparity in income among Asian countries, many in lower and lower middle class.
     
  9. Kizwiz

    Regular

    Yes, but that's an indicator for all races. People benefit from other factors like class, education, racial opportunities (ie harder for blacks to get a job), etc.
     
  10. Dominick Jul 14, 2016
    (Last edited: Jul 14, 2016)
    Dominick

    Resident Marxist Supporter

    What the wage gap demonstrates, aside from the differences in pay, is the deep-seated inequalities that are the result of a couple of things: work is structured along gender lines and work itself that is conceptualized as gendered is valued less, so even on that basis, there is a persistent devaluation of women's labor and that with which it is associated. Rather than being a myth, it, in fact, points to a gap that runs far deeper than just wage outcomes. Choices, practices, beliefs, etc., all are circumscribed by patriarchal structures that lead to worse outcomes for women.
     
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  11. Strikegently

    close cover, strike gently

    It's not the evil patriarchy, it's called the market. If you have a greater supply of people who are capable of doing a job, or a lesser demand for that work, then the market demands a lesser wage be paid. This is not unique to women, this is the case for everyone.

    If you want to make more money, then work in a field that the market rewards.
     
  12. Chaplain Tappman

    Trusted Prestigious

    Brilliant...we should all just become hedge fund managers and poverty and inequality would be over! Incredible! Have you received the Nobel prize for economics for this insight yet?
     
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  13. Strikegently

    close cover, strike gently

    If everyone was a hedgefund manager then hedgefund managers wouldn't be rich. They have a set a skills that are in high demand, and very low supply - if everyone did it, then they wouldn't earn as much.
     
  14. Chaplain Tappman

    Trusted Prestigious

    I'm afraid I don't understand...can you explain more?
     
  15. Strikegently

    close cover, strike gently

  16. Chaplain Tappman

    Trusted Prestigious

  17. Dominick

    Resident Marxist Supporter

    This actually has no explanatory power on any sociological level. We aren't isolated individuals and history is a thing that actually exists.
     
  18. skogsraet

    Trusted Supporter

    This implies all women want to be teachers and all men want to be hedge fund managers (for example). I find that implication offensive in its blatant sexism. There are forces at work here other than women just not wanting high paying work but since you can't deduce that, I'm gonna spell it out for you.

    There are societal pressures at work here that are influencing the way women handle their career. This means women are less likely to negotiate raises, more likely to take a leave of absence or quit to raise a family and more likely to miss out on promotions because of time spent with family, and yes, in some instances, choose lower paying fields of work but that does not account entirely for the disparity. These same societal pressures mean employers are less likely to hire or promote a pregnant woman because of the assumption that she will be caring for the child. Now here's my favorite one (and one I've experienced firsthand in sales industries) -- high paying jobs that are male dominated shut women out with male centric bonding activities. In my own workplaces, I wasn't invited to play fantasy football or go to Hooter's for business over dinner. I don't actually want to do either of those things, but I missed making important business connections because of it and most importantly, I wasn't even invited to participate because I'm a girl. These kinds of environments (the same ones that think Hooter's is appropriate for business) are more than common in sales and finance industries especially as well as many other high paying careers and that type of exclusion is highly demotivating. It's pretty obvious how badly not participating in work activities can hurt career advancement, and such an environment (which usually go hand in hand with sexually hostile and abusive workplaces), without the promise of career advancement, is the reason why women are leaving the tech industry in unprecedented numbers. You're right in that they're rejecting high paying jobs, but completely wrong as to why.

    You can argue all you want that the wage gap is because of women's choices. Just let me know you're sexist beforehand.
     
  19. St. Nate

    Dark Mode? Never Heard of It... Prestigious

    Yo. If I wasn't tired af and drunk after getting back from Brand New I'd explain to you how the cOmmon school system which our current public school system evolved from was predicated on using women as teachers because they could pay them less and because they'd be temporary teachers before they would go on and be mothers and how early computer programmers were women because working on hardware was seen as a more male role before they started marketing computers strictly towards men, but I'm tired and shit so maybe later.
     
  20. Strikegently

    close cover, strike gently

    It does.
    When supply is greater than demand, the price goes down.
    When demand is greater than supply, the price goes up.

    This applies to every aspect of our lives where a market exists, and employment is no different.
     
  21. Chaplain Tappman

    Trusted Prestigious

    still not getting it...can you go more in depth for me?
     
  22. Dominick

    Resident Marxist Supporter

    These certainly are axioms, which have no explanatory power outside of historical and social context.