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Invasion of Ukraine • Page 164

Discussion in 'Politics Forum' started by Ferrari333SP, Feb 24, 2022.

  1. Ferrari333SP

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  2. Ferrari333SP

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  3. Ferrari333SP

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  4. Brother Beck

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    it looks & sounds like he feels that enough time has passed and he can drop the bullshit excuses he was throwing around at the beginning and just speak plainly
     
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  5. justin.

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  6. wow if only there was a theory of international relations that identified that Great Powers have egos and tend to lash out when they’re humiliated. Then maybe we could’ve predicted Putin acting this way and done something about it
     
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  7. justin.

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  8. Brother Beck

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  9. I'm sure they did, lol. No one is reporting this like it's a surprise. The post I quoted was acting like they had invented the idea of powerful countries having egos
     
  10. justin.

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    So Russia will get upset if the US gives Ukraine long range missiles…what if South Korea were to give their long range missiles (Hyunmoo-4) to Ukraine?

     
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  11. Brother Beck

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    I disagree. I don't think the post was acting like any of what happened was a surprise. they were pointing out that Putin is finally just saying why he did what he did in plain language, which everyone already knew in the first place, but he had been throwing out all sorts of bullshit excuses before that, such as denazifying Ukraine, etc.

    also they were pointing out that the BBC is one of the last western media organizations working in Russia, but that wasn't the main point
     
  12. If everyone knew then why is it notable lol? If everyone knew then why didn't anyone say hey, maybe doing our level best to antagonize, pillage, and immiserate one of the most powerful countries on earth might help push politics in that country toward a right wing revanchist turn, which puts its neighbors in danger. It's because NATO actually likes war.
     
  13. Brother Beck

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    as far as your first question, I think it is notable that Putin gave different reasons here than he has historically, but also I think most of what Putin says is at least notable simply given who he is

    for your second question, my answer is bad and extremely foresighted leadership
     
  14. Foresighted? So they knew what was coming and allowed it? Agree! They are evil aren't they
     
  15. Brother Beck Oct 28, 2024 at 6:22 AM
    (Last edited: Oct 28, 2024 at 6:41 AM)
    Brother Beck

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    well, I personally think that they should have made actual, good faith efforts to bring Russia into any security architecture that existed a long time ago, but there was disastrous and foresighted leadership on both sides
     
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  16. Ferrari333SP

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    Here is what ChatGPT summarized about NATO/Russia relations starting in the 90's


    "Yes, NATO did discuss potential cooperation with Russia and even entertained the possibility of eventual membership at various points, particularly in the 1990s after the Soviet Union’s collapse. However, while there were invitations to collaborate, formal membership was never officially offered. Here’s a look at key moments and discussions around NATO-Russia relations:

    1. Early 1990s Cooperation and Dialogue: After the Cold War, NATO’s relationship with Russia shifted significantly. In 1991, as the Soviet Union dissolved, NATO extended partnerships to former Eastern Bloc countries and aimed to build a cooperative relationship with the new Russian Federation. Russia joined NATO’s Partnership for Peace program in 1994, which allowed for collaboration without formal membership.

    2. 1997 NATO-Russia Founding Act: NATO and Russia signed the Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation, and Security in 1997, which set up the NATO-Russia Permanent Joint Council for regular diplomatic discussions. The act formalized cooperation and was seen as a step toward reducing hostility, though it didn’t imply NATO membership. At this time, Western leaders, including U.S. President Bill Clinton, suggested that a positive relationship with NATO could pave the way for deeper ties, though membership was not on the table.

    3. Putin’s Early Presidency and Interest in NATO: In the early 2000s, Vladimir Putin expressed interest in aligning more closely with Western institutions, including NATO. He suggested in an interview with the BBC in 2000 that he did not rule out the idea of Russia potentially joining NATO if Russia were treated as an equal partner. While NATO members showed openness to dialogue and cooperation, there was hesitation about full membership for Russia, partly because of concerns about differing political values and Russia’s own interests in maintaining an independent sphere of influence.

    4. Post-2002 NATO-Russia Council: In 2002, NATO and Russia established the NATO-Russia Council to work jointly on security issues. This council marked the high point of NATO-Russia relations, focusing on shared interests like counter-terrorism. However, the relationship began deteriorating due to disagreements over NATO's eastward expansion, particularly in former Soviet states, which Russia viewed as a threat to its own security.
    Since then, NATO-Russia relations have progressively worsened, especially following the 2008 Russia-Georgia conflict and Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014. Although NATO pursued cooperation with Russia for a period, full membership has always been politically complex and never formalized or offered outright"
     
  17. justin.

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. Brother Beck

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    there may have been a period of time where the two sides could have worked together in good faith, but leadership on both sides chose not to pursue that route and chose instead to go down a road that I can only see leading to another cold war at best and hot war & nuclear annihilation for all of us at worst
     
  19. Ferrari333SP

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  20. justin.

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  21. Ferrari333SP

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  22. Ferrari333SP

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    Tons of clips from the last month

     
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  25. Ferrari333SP

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