Here They Come Again

Very interesting article, for sure. It sounds like Aziz had a show this week which is getting some heat. I didn't read the article about his material, but some of the comments made it sound like he was performing material that hit close to relationships/sex/sexism etc and some people didn't think that was the smartest thing because of what came out in that other article earlier this year.

That said, did he really do anything bad? Maybe it was bad but I wouldn't put him in the same camp as CK or Lauer. Aziz thought that he was going out with a fan/groupie and the woman thought it was a date. From all accounts it appears that while he did come on hard, she said no and he stopped. Nothing further happened, as far as I am aware (please correct me if I am missing something).

So my question/concern is: why are we throwing him in the same bad light as everyone else?

 

I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life

That doesn't sound like he stopped.

 

A lot of women were upset with the Aziz story because they saw it as hurting the #MeToo movement. Very polarizing situation.

 

I am not excusing the behavior but I have seen a lot of flak about Chris Hardiwck returning to Talking Dead / America's Got Talent, Louis CK and Aziz returning to standup...but what is the proper course of action for forgiveness? I am just curious what these individuals who are not on the same level as say Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey who are rapists, plain and simple....people like Louis who has claimed his misdeeds and the public some accept that as a form of remorse and wanting to be better but some like the obviously skewed Jezebel who will not. I am not meaning this as some sort of siding with abusers, I am just curious what the path to forgiveness looks like.

edit, because I feel like that wasn't clear what I was asking. Jezebel seems to have the idea that if you mess up once no matter the circumstance your time in the public eye is over. Which, I don't think I agree with. If we judge people solely on that, how do prisons makes sense for "changing" a criminal for the better? After prison, can someone who has made a mistake be accepted back into society?

 

I don't think that's what the article argues for at all. The entire conclusion, which I quoted from, is about what amends and actual accountability could look like compared to just "time has passed" — which is not amends, which is not accountability.

 

Yeah, it claims that public apology needs to be at the forefront. I mean, Louis' case, he did that. Not only fessing up to his masturbatory grossness but leaving in shame. They deem it unworthy because he came back to comedy and didn't immediately address it.

Again, because I feel like I am treading dangerously here, I am not defending him. Anyone who is on the phone with someone and jerking off whilst doing so is wrong and I hope he understands that. I am just playing devil's advocate because I am not sure what is being asked of anyone who wishes some form of recompense for their actions.

 

People like Louis and Aziz make money for a lot of people, of course they would be back.

Louis won’t get shunned out of the business for being a liar and sexual predator because he brings in cash. It’s sad and heart breaking for the people they hurt but big wigs are worried about fattening their pockets not morals or accountability.

 

I love Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol because it shows a dastardly man change his ways over a night of visitation of ghosts. When he finally realizes after seeing his own grave the err of his ways he promises to change. There is a interesting side note to this, we refer to misery people as Scrooge and there is a line towards the end of the story where people laugh at him and he "let's them laugh," people judging him for his past ways. Can someone ever really make amends?

 

Where did he say he's sorry and apologize exactly?

Louis C.K. Responds to Accusations: ‘These Stories Are True’

 

First, no one needs to be a devils advocate. Second, I feel like you didn't read what I linked. A good start to answering your question is answered in the part I quoted:

None of these men—that we know about—have talked publicly about undergoing counseling, made large donations to RAINN, done anything to understand the power dynamics they were part of. But there’s clearly an eagerness to let some of them back in anyway, after making the barest effort possible. The question is who benefits from that attitude, and who, once again, is harmed.

 

From Louis CK - "These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was O.K. because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I’ve tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I’m aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position. I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn’t want to hear it. I didn’t think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it. There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with. I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work"

 

Where did he say he's sorry and apologize exactly?

I'm going to stop going in circles after this. It's clearly a bad use of my time.

 

Didn't Louis' actions railroad some careers. Same with Hardwick.

Money compensation should definitely factor into accountability.

 

I agree. I don’t see it happening though.

 

I think it could factor in, but doesn't necessarily have to. Some of the victims may not want money. Especially given the nature of the offense perpetrated against them, money can make things . . . weird.

I don't think there's a "one size fits all" approach to these situations and most of what I've seen from those involved in the movement advocates for a restorative justice approach where input on what the response looks like comes not from some prescribed guidelines or approach but from a discussion with the victim, the offender, and in some cases the community in which the offense occurred, as to what justice should look like in that case.

 

I didn’t think about that, but they can also use their money for donations, charities, and plenty of good uses.

 

That's certainly possible, but again I would advocate that the victim should be able to have a say in what justice looks like in any given case.

 

why does he need to come back though? Like, what does he have to contribute to comedy anymore?

 

Well, if they weren't famous, each case of sexual assault (which they've effectively admitted to) is a felony and at least a year in prison depending on the state. That's a good place to start.

 

Which I agree with, that's the next step that hasn't taken place...charges. If only we had a justice system that can do something about it, there wouldn't be a gray area nor the court of public opinion.

 

when someone uses their position to exploit others, it should draw into question whether or not they deserve to hold that position in the future.... they need to do more than say "yep i did that and it wasn't cool" to prove to me they deserve my attention in the future.

not sorry, but when you build your career off of abusing my demographic, i don't think you deserve your career.

 

Saw a tweet something to the effect of, “imagine you work at a bank and they rehire a guy that showed you his dick just because he had been gone for 9 months.”

Louis sexually assaulted numerous women- maybe not in the traditional sense you’re used to hearing about on Law and Order, but that’s what he did. And not only that, but he kept the women that tried to do something about it from advancing in their careers to save his own. Possibly more to just be petty and mean.

He doesn’t need to do comedy to make a living. He doesn’t need a public platform. He can go work at Wal-Mart and make money. People need to stop acting like men who abuse their power have no other means to get any normal job. They do. They’re just privileged and want to do what they want to do. Meanwhile, the women they leave in their wake have to give up on their dreams because they said “no” to the wrong guy.

There are so many people in the world who are not going to use their career to assault and abuse people. Instead of making excuses and reasoning why it’s okay for Louis or Aziz to come back, why not just give literally any one else a chance?

 

Louie C.K. is an unrepentant piece of shit sexual abuser who should be abolished from the comedy scene

 

Best description yet for this ass wipe