Rewatching season 2 right now. Forgot how much I liked Yrgritt (or however you spell it) Her making fun of Jon while she is his prisoner is still funny.
yeah im gonna go ahead and go out on a limb and say it's v weird how uncomfortable and how defensive about being uncomfortable you are about this one scene that's probably one of the few actually consensual, non coerced, non incest, sex scene that lasted probably 1/10th of the time their other far more violent and gross sex scenes from earlier seasons did. like did we watch a different episode?
I’m baffled that people think it’s weird to be uncomfortable or feel awkward seeing a character we’ve mostly seen as a young child appear half nude in the same series.
Yeah my feelings towards the scene was it was uncomfortable for me personally, BUT I’m not saying it was anywhere near as gross as other sex scenes in the show. I’m very happy with her/Gendry hooking up, but it’s just hard for me to see someone I’ve mostly viewed as a child to all of a sudden explore sexuality. It’s completely fine with her wanting to do so. Again more of me just personally being weird about it, but the discussion that’s being had has gotten out of hand.
You literally said: I don’t think this statement or position is reasonable, no. Neither you nor I nor anyone else gets to make that call. Also I read the same books you did and I’m not having any problem separating them from this. This infantilization of Maisie is so bizarre to me so forgive me for not understanding.
Don’t want to take away from the conversation but I’m curious to see everyone’s predictions for next week in terms of who dies I got: Jorah, Missandei, Gendry, Beric, Edd, Ghost, Lord Royce, Pod and Theon.
I am not a fan of Bronn or his portrayal with women. The scene with him in the first episode was peak unnecessary nudity and sex and women as objects for this show. My issue with Arya is that unlike lots of other characters who have suffered and changed and come out on the other side, the writers spent years wasting her character (like all of S5) or portraying her trauma as something cool and shocking and often comic even relief. I don’t feel that she is a “bad” person any more than anyone else on the show, but her return to Winterfell and life as completely Arya Stark has been so poorly written that her internal journey just feels like it skipped to the end. She deserves to gain as much of her own life as she can back, assuming there is a life at all by the end, but they haven’t given her enough of a story as anything but a super cool assassin to delve into her personal tragedy, and it makes it ring false. It would be similar if Bran lost his connection to the 3ER and a bit of time passed and he was just Bran again with no real process how he got there. No one would be sad that he returned to himself, but it wouldn’t make much sense to cut the hard part out.
i know this was hours ago but i would absolutely be uncomfortable if we saw/would have seen bran or rickon's dick or ass. they were like 8 when they started the show lol. it'll be weird if they show that shit in like season 8 of stranger things too. bad take.
I’ve never really considered Arya’s arc from this perspective, to be honest. I’ve looked at everything she’s done since escaping from the Hound as her finally rejecting the role society proscribed for her and taking control of her own narrative. Seizing the dream she always wanted for herself since the first episode of the series: to be a warrior and to right the wrongs in her life. And all the developments in her life between then and now have molded her into the person she always wanted to be, even though it probably wasn’t exactly the kind of warrior she originally had in mind. And I don’t think she’s fully returned to being the same Arya Stark she was since she’s been back in Winterfell. Her whole conflict with Sansa last season was because she was acting strangely and not like the girl anyone remembered. And having Jon back this season may have softened her up somewhat, because she and Jon were always close, but she’s still the Arya she developed into. I interpreted the scene with Gendry not as the writers trying to immediately revert her back into a non-assassin, I saw it more as a brief moment of humanity that is almost necessary to distinguish Arya’s personality from something like Bran’s at this point. But yours is an interesting different perspective on her arc for sure. When I do a rewatch I’ll definitely keep it in mind.
I’m sorry for the lack of clarity, that wasn’t what I intended to ask was reasonable. That is my personal stance, prefaced with “I think” and “probably” because I understand it gets into murky territory, my tendency towards being anti-nudity at all is informed by actresses I’ve known, producers/directors I’ve known, and basically all of Hollywood history. I know that’s not a widely held stance, I meant to ask whether or not any discomfort at seeing a woman you have known primarily through ages 12-17 naked is reasonable. I think it’s fair, especially against the context of Hollywood nudity. I get that you don’t feel the same about this scene. I get where you’re coming from. I am glad Maisie has autonomy in the scene and understand she’s an adult, as is the character (though Cogman himself said it’s useless trying to place her age and I find it slightly telling that HBO twitter accounts made sure to explicitly say she’s 18 in joke tweets). It’s not my intent to infantilize her, it’s a caution that comes from this show and Hollywood’s history. I think painting any discomfort with the scene as discomfort with her agency as a character or actress is unfair and inaccurate. I don’t think we’ll agree, or that we have to agree. I get that I was being reactionary, I regret some strong wording I used initially, but I won’t back down on hoping audiences become more critical of onscreen nudity and the very real power dynamics behind it, and that it’s fair if someone feels slightly weird seeing someone naked when they were introduced to them as a child. Not that you’d want to, but if you want to discuss further I don’t want to annoy the thread. Maybe it’s a question that can be posited in the sexism thread, perspectives there would likely be more valuable than mine. But otherwise, I’ll leave this thread alone now.
I think Edd, Ghost, and Bronze Yohn survive. But that also may be wishful thinking on my part. Pod....ugh it pains me to say this but I agree. I’d swap Missandei with Grey Worm. I’m adding Bran to the list, for now. Wavering back and forth on that. Arya....yeah. I’m adding her on. Fuck. Lady Mel and Varys I am also adding on.
Ugh everything with Sansa is a huge part of why it was poorly done. They had so much time to explore both of them understanding where they’ve been and who they are and instead they just had awful scene after awful scene that only made sense from a TV perspective to keep the twist about Littlefinger going. It was such a disservice to both characters.
Yeah I don’t often wish for flashbacks in things but it would’ve been cool to see the rest of that last scene between them before Littlefinger’s death just to see how they worked through everything.
Maisie is basically doing the “kid star does an adult role to tell the world they don’t get to treat her as a child forever” thing in the SAME role that made her famous to start with, and that’s a unique situation. I can think of maybe a few other examples where children have become total adults over the course of a show, but not usually this long running or completely.
Haven’t watched that to know the full extent, but that was definitely one I was thinking of. The Americans as well.
Except Arya never fully lost herself. She was constantly battling her own identity vs becoming nobody. She couldn’t relinquish Needle, she acted against Ser Meryn Trant, etc. If she had completely shed her identity, she never would have done that. From the first time we meet Arya, she wants to be a soldier. Her shooting the arrow, her in the Winterfell soldier’s helmet, her practicing sword fighting with the butcher’s boy. Her time with the Faceless Men taught her how to be one of the best killers out there, which in many ways is what Arya Stark always wanted to be. When she and the Waif are playing the game of faces is the perfect example of this, when the Waif remarks that Arya sounds confused and Arya says “she was.” Except the truth of the matter is she is because she’s still very much Arya Stark. Arya has always been wild. Everything she has done since returning to Westeros is in line with her character before ever leaving for the House or Black and White. She’s ruthless and cold, but she has a code that is very much influenced by her family, and that has never left her Edit: I do agree with your take on the relationship with Sansa and Arya in season 7 mostly making sense from TV logic, though. And this conversation would likely be different had that been handled in a more intelligent way.
sorry if this has been discussed already but... do the WW's need to be stabbed with dragon glass, or would just touching it / being hit by it kill them or at least cause damage? i've been wondering if they need to create weapons or could they just crush up the dragon glass into dust and sprinkle it all over Winterfell and / or blow it at the WW like powder and just kill them all that way. but if they have to actually be stabbed by it to be killed, then i get all the weapons.
Also, have we ever seen a wight explicitly killed with dragon glass? Would it affect them any differently than a regular steel sword? I think the only thing we have seen “kill” them is fire.
She cooked a man’s sons into a pie and fed them to him. She did that AS HERSELF. That’s not the work of a soldier or a warrior. It’s one of the most sadistic and horrific things to happen on the show. She went down an incredibly dark path to get there and get such glee from killing, and her road back to being a full person who understands her skills but isn’t a complete revenge monster has been super underwritten.
I would hope a lot of the dragonglass is focused only on the walkers, since the wights will die when those go down. It would be hilarious to see the army misjudge the human weapons and have the whole thing fall immediately because the walkers are in the front. Not that it will happen of course.
It’s horrific and sadistic, but it’s not like Arya came up with that on her own. It’s from a story Old Nan used to tell the Stark children. And she saves her most sadistic kill for the person she feels is most deserving of it. What the Frey’s did to her family is, in my opinion, just as horrific. Arya is just more creative. Makes me wonder what she would have done to Joffrey had he survived... I’ll add that I don’t think this side of Arya is gone, just because she wanted to also have sex. I still think Arya is more than capable and willing to go to those horrific depths for someone else she feels deserves it. It’s why I’m very much anticipating what Arya is running from during that scene in the trailer. Logic dictates that it must be something especially hellish to freak Arya out like that.
Arya running through the crypts is what’s had me most excited since the trailers. It’s gotta be something wild.
my understanding, and i could be definitely wrong, is that a wight can only be killed by fire, WW killed by dragon glass / valerian steel. per the most reliable source ever, Wikipedia: "Creatures killed by the Others soon reanimate as wights: undead with pallid skin, black hands, and glowing blue eyes similar to the Others'. Dragonglass has no effect on them. Wights may be physically injured, but even dismembered parts remain animated, so they must be destroyed by fire. The humans who live in the north beyond the Wall—called "wildlings" by the inhabitants of Westeros—burn their dead so they will not become wights"