FromSoftware Video Game • Page 58

Lmaoooooooo, fuckin geeks

 

Reading the comments in that thread makes me hate video games.

I've already said I totally get that some games are designed for a specific audience, and that's fine.

On the other hand, some people are fucking insufferable in how they treat any recommendations on improving or adding to a game as some kind of sacrilege.

Mandalorian "this is the way" jokes aside, there is nothing wrong with suggesting something like a quest log or quick key shortcuts.

People treating scrolling through an inventory like a badge of honor makes me want to set fire to all my consoles.

 

what a bunch of cornballs LMAOOO

 

I mean, hey, I feel for them.

release two good games and both are overshadowed by a better one

 

The game doesn’t need a quest log, that misses the entire point of the game. I’m not a fromsoft fanboy this is the first game by them I’ve touched but it’s very obvious what their design philosophies are and the game wouldn’t be made any better with a quest log or anything else these people think makes “good UX”

 

I also have spent remarkably little time doing inventory management of any kind, the system in place is fluid and sorts it all for you

 

To clarify, I'm not defending the Horizon guys and I don't really give a fuck about whatever beef they've got going.

I just mean the replies and what's going on in there. Someone broached the idea that a quest log might be a good idea and instantly other people were on their case.

It's like people have to immediately get hyper defensive when they really don't.

 

But the game doesn’t need a quest log, that’s my entire point, and acting like the game would be better for it misses the point of the game, so of course people are like uh that’s a bad idea, because it is. Not every suggestion is a good one or needs to be made. Tbh I think it’s a remarkably bad suggestion and people were right to point that out. It’s not getting defensive

 

I don't want to start an argument and I also don't want to sound like a hypocrite since we just got done having a similar conversation a few pages back about the risk-reward system.

I also totally understand that there are certain ways people like the games they enjoy to be and that people don't readily accept change, even if it's something that is optional and they don't have to use.

For example, they were talking about how a quest log doesn't have to be obtrusive and can be something people can access in the menu if they need it. It wouldn't change how anyone plays the game.

I don't really care about this game in particular since I don't own it and I'm not currently playing it. i'm taking the conversation there as a microcosm of what I see all the time, all over the place.

Like for example, I've seen multiple conversations about games where someone asks about controller support and immediately keyboard/mouse purists will get on their case about how using a controller isn't the correct way to play.

I ultimately am for accessibility for players as long as it doesn't change the experience for other people. I want everyone to be able to be happy, myself included.

What I don't like is the attitude many gamers have where there's this air of superiority; someone makes a suggestion, innocently, and other people act like wolves to the slaughter. It's really not cool.

 

I can see both sides. But I think at this point it’s very clear Miyazaki is not ever going to change this formula. It’s become a core aspect of these games and is something not a lot of games on the market offer you.

I don’t think this game (or any souls game) really needs a quest log because there’s never more than a dozen side quests in the game. I think there’s about 20 in Elden Ring and a majority of them end at the same person you spoke too.

It seems like there’s roughly 50 side missions in Horizon and I think at that point a quest log is definitely a welcomed addition.

 

game definitely could use a quest log.

Yes, building good quests is hard. You want to guide a player what to do without simply telling them "go here". Not giving them any quest information at all so they need to remember everything manually or write it down is just taking the lazy way out that results in a majority of players either not doing your quests, or just following an online guide for the quests, neither of which is an ideal option.

As an example of how not having a quest log hurts the game, I talked to a a lady. She wanted me to go find her dad in a castle. Found the castle. No special dialog or anything. Went back to the lady, found out I actually had to talk to her a couple of times before she game me a letter. Then had to go back to the dad. And even now idk if there was more I could've done in that quest line whatever I'm done with it.

With a quest log I would've have been out there actively trying to complete a quest I hadn't actually gotten yet. And would know when the quest lines are done or if there is more to do.

 

Don’t fix what isn’t broke. I assume a lot of these criticisms are coming from newcomers (which is great) but don’t understand how they are part of the experience.

 

Newcomers are *exactly* the type of people you want to be listening to about ways your experience is broken. Veterans can become blind to annoyances the game has so if you ignore the feedback of newcomers you can wind up producing stuff that no one new actually wants.

 

Like there is zero reason to not let you pause your single player game. Or to not let you cash in your golden runes while resting at a site of grace. Or to not at least record your conversations you've had with NPCs somewhere so you don't have to write it all down yourself.

But verterans get so far up the "That's how its always been so its fine" tree that they dismiss even suggestions like that as new player just wanting an easier experience.

 

Veterans are the ones that makes videos, blogs and update the Wiki pages so newcomers can understand the game.

 

With how much this game sold, I wouldn’t expect anything to change.

This game did astronomical numbers.

 

Ultimately, I understand that the designers have certain ideas in mind, and I certainly wouldn't want them to change anything that alters the experience that they're setting out to create.

That being said, there are ways to appeal to other audiences with concessions that don't have to be obtrusive and ruin the experience that veterans have already come to enjoy. It can be done.

At the end of the day though, my argument here is more just about how allergic people seem to get to even considering this type of conversation. I just think people don't need to be dicks to each other.

 

Literally don’t give a shit what a newcomer thinks of these games. Millions of people love these games the way they are.
The fact they’re obtuse is part of the appeal.

i Just don’t understand the need to come into a space and want it to be changed, when everyone who likes these games and is buying them already made it a global phenomenon and like them the way they are.

(Accessibility options non-withstanding.)

 

Just like a puzzle game, it’s all part of the experience and appeal of the game figuring it out.

 

These are both true statements. I believe in the expression that the outsider sees most of the game, but I also believe that you shouldn't crash a party you weren't invited to.

I believe it is fully possible to appeal to both sets of gamers to a degree. To go back to the quest log idea, just having it in the menu makes it available for people who want it, and people who don't, don't have to use it. It's the same idea with difficulty sliders, no? You make these things in the background.

 

Also none of these quests fucking matter. They’re optional puzzles at best.

Get 2 great runes then go become the Elden Lord. Boom there’s your quest log.

 

I’m sure a lot of games were returned after meeting Margit for newcomers (as evidenced by pictures of used games already) but it’s still a a game sold.

 

There can not be a quest log because no one will tell you what to do. This shit won’t help you. a dialogue log would maybe make sense but some shit is literally just like “see you soon”. LITERALLY. What should the quest log even say at that point? “Nepheli Loux said she’d see you soon.” Lmao?!

 

I don't agree with wanting a game to be changed wholesale either, but I don't see why suggesting things should be anathema. Constructive criticism is a useful tool for anybody, and it can either be taken or dismissed.

Even something that's insanely popular isn't immune from criticism, and if something can be made better without changing the experience for everyone else, then why not?

 

The perfect from game for these people is already out there and it’s called Assassins Creed Origins and it’s freaking phenomenal.