Every Member of Congress Who Took Money From the NRA and Tweeted ‘Thoughts and Prayers’ to... • Page 4

I’m sorry, but i am willing to be belittling and rude to anyone who thinks a hobby is a good price to pay for children’s lives. I don’t care if it’s half the population, that half is sick and wrong to value a death machine over human lives

 

They are largely the same facts that are brought up every time these things happen. They meant nothing the last time, what changed? Plus, I don't believe that a news post on Chorus.fm is going to change the country.

 

I'm not trying to change an entire populations mind I'm talking to one person on a message board

 

Who once again I had a productive conversation with if you would read past the first post

 

this is just flat out wrong by the way. it is black and white, guns should have tighter restrictions around them no question. the reason theres no sensible gun control has nothing to do with which side is right and which side is wrong, one side is clearly right if you look at statistics from countries with tighter gun laws. the other side is raking in money from the worst organization in this country in order to uphold the status quo, the status quo that results in mass shootings like these on a regular basis. so i refuse to believe there are two sides to this issue or both sides should be heard. absolute horse shit in my opinion.

 

Absolutely this. There is clearly a right and clearly a side making mass amounts of money which takes precedence over morality.

 

God bless you guys who can still debate with the gun clinging 2nd amendment assholes. I just don't have it in my heart to argue with them anymore. It sucks the life out of my soul.

 

Tighter gun laws are not the only difference between those other countries and the US. There are other factors at play such as how prevalent were guns before the gun laws went into place, and how do they culturally relate to guns. To say, they work there, they'd work here, is filling in a lot of blanks. And the status quo is not just upheld by politicians receiving donations. It's upheld by every American who believes their outdated constitutional right should not be suppressed or amended in anyway, despite the consequences that come from other Americans not utilizing that right responsibly. If you've ever truly debated gun control outside of this site (where there isn't really much debate) you'll see that each side has a plethora of facts (debatable each way) to pull from relating to gun control effectiveness.

 

While both sides can pull facts, it is delusional to think that stricter gun laws would not have any impact whatsoever.

 

tighter gun laws are not the only thing that needs changing but they are the easiest to change and will have some kind of impact. we should be trying anything that works right now. and it is politicians because the majority of americans, a lot of republicans too, believe in some of the proposed changes to gun control. obviously there are people who think any change to gun control is taking away their 2nd amendment altogether, but most people even gun owners recognize the need for change.

 

I don't think anyone believes that more restrictions on guns will suddenly stop 100% of all school shootings, but shouldn't we do everything we possibly can to reduce the chance of it happening regardless? I don't understand this "Because it won't stop 100% of all crimes we shouldn't even try to make it harder." argument. Why should we not try when kids are dying every year? We should be doing everything we can to make it harder and harder for this kind of thing to happen in our country because it doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.

 

To quote Jim Jefferies: "There's one argument and one argument only for owning a gun, and it's 'fuck off, I like guns!' It's not the best argument, but it's really all you've got."

That aside, I believe if you want to own a gun or have a concealed-carry permit as a means of self-protection, then fine. Own a gun. But purchasing/owning a gun should be every bit as hard or harder than buying/owning a house or car. I've boiled my POV down to this:

-Ban assault weapon/automatic weapon/bump stock sales
-Domestic violence/violent criminal record ban
-No sales at gun shows/expos
-Must 21 or older to purchase
-More strict background checks
-Drug screening for every purchase
-A prospective gun owner must pass gun use/gun safety certification courses, and provide those certificates at the point of purchase.
-Limit on the amount of magazines/clips/bullets one can own.
-Annual registration renewal, and bi-annual background check and drug-screening after purchase. $500 fine for missing any one of these, and have the fines increase incrementally the more times you miss them.
-Refuse to vote for politicians bought by the NRA.

Will these things wipe out gun violence entirely? No. But it'd be a step in the right direction, and the "responsible gun-owners" will still get to keep their guns. To say "it will still happen any way, so why bother?" is ignorant, lazy and large part of why these things keep happening.

Additionally, the following measures ought to be taken:

-Increase DoE funding so schools can hire more guidance counselors & establish more programs and resources to tackle bullying & discussing mental health issues with children and teens.
-Parents must be more willing to discuss mental health with their kids, teaching them not to stigmatize it or any person suffering from a mental health condition
-Make mental health care/therapy more easily accessible for all who seek it. (that ties into our country's broken healthcare system though which is a whole other discussion to be had obviously)
-Don't allow teachers with concealed-carry permits to bring their gun into school.

I understand these ideas probably aren't good ideas to many on this thread, and that many of you believe guns should be banned entirely. I don't disagree with that. I think Australia banning guns after Port Arthur was a fantastic move with proven positive results. Unfortunately with how different American and Australian cultures are, and how obessed America is with gun culture, it's sadly not something that's going to be able to happen overnight. But like I said before, the measures listed above could put us on that path & get us there over time. Isn't it fucking worth a shot?

 

Seems like you are making a lot of assumptions about Australia. You done your research?
None of the differences you say make gun control in America any more or less important. It's people's lives at risk we are talking about. History doesn't matter anymore. Times change and so should laws. For example: gay marriage, medicinal drug use, etc. Wonder what the founding fathers opinion on these topics were?

Surely you can use the founding fathers argument to stop any progress whatsoever on any topic?
"If the founding fathers said it was true/legal/illegal then we must keep it that way (for eternity)" Where is the room for growth and for progress? Surely the founding fathers wanted a nation that embraced growth and progress rather than one bound by outdated rules for all of eternity?

 

Kids are dying nearly every day. 18 mass shootings this year and we aren't even 2 months into the year.

22 years after Australia changed its gun laws and we still haven't had another mass shooting. Case closed.

 

I don't disagree with any of this. I was simply trying to point out the counter arguments we have here in the US and how It's not as simple as saying 'it worked in Australia'. There's one thing I know about constitutional loving Americans, and it's that they don't give a fuck what other countries have done because 'this is America!'. I was playing devils advocate for a few posts to illustrate that it's not as simple as 'kids got shot, it has to change'. A lot of America still, and will continue to say, through every single future tragedy, 'I didn't shoot any kids, hands off my guns' and point out research on responsible gun ownership and point to research that hints at gun control not being as effective as it may seem (like screaming about about areas with gun control that still see high rates of violence such as Chicago). Without any research, I can warrant a guess that there were fewer people in Australia who had that hard nosed attitude and I would also guess that the majority of citizens realized that by having a gun for a reason like a hobby, it feed into a system that allowed people who would shoot kids to get a gun. From a moral perspective, its black and white, if you oppose gun control because it will inconvenience your trivial reason for building an arsenal, then fuck you. From a constitutional point of view, it's far from black and white. I hate it. I don't disagree with history and society changing, but it's just a fact that a large portion of the population (hopefully less than half) feel this way.

Also the 18 mass shootings fact has been debunked and there have been several high profile figures who tweeted that statistic and have since apologized. Correct facts matter.

 

The devil really doesn't need advocates.

 

If you're gonna make a claim that "correct facts matter" you should maybe have the facts right.

Every Town says "18 school shootings" because they including things like someone getting shot at 1am at a school. If you wanna have debates about that or not, fine.

As for mass shootings, you're right, it's not 18. It's 30.

 

My mind is blown that someone who spends so much time, distraught, posting on threads like this, can think its not important to understand the other side of the coin and how to effectively argue and engage those with opposing view points.

And yes, I made a mistake. I hastily read it as the 18 school shootings this year fact that has been passed around and subsequently been debunked (or least made to be presented with additional context). Thank you for correcting me and the links. I have not seen that specific graphic with all that detail.

 

My mind is blown that you think what you've offered is new, original and unseen by everyone engaged in this conversation, or even a good version of an opposing view point.

You saying the same shit most of us read 10 years ago and knew it was a horrible argument then too, is exactly why I repeat: "no one needs to play devils advocate."

 

Anyone arguing that there should not be an increase in gun regulation is inherently unreasonable and should not be treated as though they have a valid position.

 

It baffles me how these people often think they're "fighting the good fight" by somehow believing they have a morally/intellectually superior point of view, even when they're simply rehashing the same crap we've been hearing for decades.

 

If further baffles my mind that someone goes "I need to take a bad counter argument position online" and justifies it as "well, I'm just trying to ask questions/cover the other side/you don't wanna think about it/debate it" ... if someone holds these dumb basically photo meme on Facebook viewpoints and wants to argue for them, fine, I'll spend 10 minutes explaining why it's fucking stupid for the 1000th time, but if you don't even believe this shit and you're just "playing devils advocate" I truly think you should fuck off and do literally anything else with your time. Tired of the "just playing devils advocate, but maybe kids should die and black people and women should not be able to vote because I think we needa talk about this online more, I don't believe it but let me just argue it for a while anyway."

/rant

 

I can understand the idea behind bringing forth another side, however when you don’t even believe that viewpoint yourself, what are you even doing?

Bottom line, if you’re against stricter gun laws, you’re only putting yourself and your hobby above other peoples’ lives and that’s gross.

 

The Governor of Kentucky came out after the Florida shooting and blamed video games, music and movies. Not guns.

If you get a chance read the article it’s funny because it’s so backwards and this man is actually in power.

——————-

Why is he convinced that it's video games and not guns? Because when he went to school in New England, students would bring guns in for show-and-tell.


"Sometimes they'd be in kids' lockers," Bevin said. "Nobody even thought about shooting other people with them. So it's not a gun problem."


That’s my favorite part of the story.

 

I don't get into politics or anything but everybody blames Trump and his administration, wasn't Obama just president for 8 years?

Did he make drastic changes in gun laws?