Entertainment Forum General Chat Thread • Page 204

Discussion in 'Entertainment Forum' started by JoshIsMediocre, Jun 6, 2025.

  1. Same, really grateful for this discussion.
     
  2. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    Stuff like To Kill a Mockingbird and Catcher in the Rye and the Great Gatsby counts, books like those are taught in schools as a starting point for a foundational understanding of literature, being shorter and a bit more straightforward than something like Ulysses, which is generally taught for more advanced classes. But even those are used (optimistically) as an entryway for readers to pursue literature further (which doesn’t make them less great).
     
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  3. iCarly Rae Jepsen

    run away with me Platinum

    also the themes and symbolism of the Great Gatsby are still relevant today, and it's a perfect example of how just being lazy and reading reviews of the movie is missing out on a great story that's also a fun read

    I have no patience for people who lack intellectual curiosity, like not everyone has to be like us but life's a journey not a destination
     
  4. Tim

    all of this is temporary Supporter

    I have a lot of love in my heart for a well crafted superhero comic, but I’m honestly glad a lot of what you’ve read isn’t that. It’s a pet peeve of mine when someone says they love comics and predominately (sometimes exclusively) read cape shit. Truly the equivalent of saying you love movies but exclusively watch Avengers, Batman, and Star Wars.

    Since you’ve read some Image titles and are getting into AbsBat, it’d be worth looking into Nick Dragotta’s long Image series he did with Jonathan Hickman, East of West. I’ve only read the beginning (need to get the compendium), but what I’ve read is super cool.

    Moving away from genre stuff (though it does have some sci-fi and capes), I’m always trying to push Love and Rockets by Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez. Been running in various forms since the 80s, with each brother doing his own stuff, but not that hard to get into.

    For Jaime, the brother I like more, I usually recommend starting with the second collection of his stuff, The Girl From HOPPERS, followed by the third, Perla La Loca, before backtracking. Wonderful blend of punk rock, Chicano culture, lesbians, wrestling, capes, soap opera, etc. My favorite stuff in the entire medium.

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    For Gilbert Hernandez, his storyline of the island of Palomar is best started at the beginning imo, with a collection called Heartbreak Soup.

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    Hopefully someday I find out that successfully got some chorus posters into Los Bros Hernandez!

    Anyways, I can think of other recs based on what you wanna try if you want. If you really wanna do the superhero thing, the Absolute line is a great place. The work Javier Rodríguez is doing on Absolute Martian Manhunter is stunning, and what I’ve read of Absolute Wonder Woman by Kelly Thompson & Hayden Sherman is some of the best that’s been done with that oft underserved character.
     
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  5. tvck

    the price of living, the art of suffering Prestigious

    Awesome, I'll bookmark this for later. Really appreciate you taking the time.

    Out of these I had only heard of East of West (actually think I had started the first volume a couple of years ago, but think I ended up reading Descender instead) so I'll start there when I'm ready, then check the others. No real need for it to be cape stuff, but I do gravitate towards more sci-fi stuff in general in most of the things I like.
     
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  6. OotyPa

    fall away Supporter

    There are plenty of "classics" that are also pretty easy reads. I read Ethan Frome last year in one sitting. Watership Down is a ton of fun and not difficult at all. Kafka is considered classic and you could finish and understand The Metamorphosis pretty quickly. Anne of Green Gables -- super light.
     
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  7. iCarly Rae Jepsen

    run away with me Platinum

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  8. I'm gonna preface this by saying I didn't read most of the last five pages haha...

    When I still wanted to be a teacher, I wanted to teach texts by poc/lgbtqia authors. Also, graphic novels (the ones where the entire story is told/published in a single volume, not the monthlies). I resisted this idea that the literary canon had to be written and selected by a bunch of dead white men. Outside of that, well, there's definitely slop, but there's obviously plenty of worthwhile things as well. I don't think moving away from classics is inherently a bad thing so long as kids are reading and engaging with texts in meaningful ways. I guess media literacy is a whole other discussion.
     
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  9. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I go back and forth about my curriculum. We switched to block scheduling which makes it hard to get through more than one novel after our short story unit, along with having to teach the state test bullshit. Right now I do "The Body" by Stephen King and Fences by August Wilson. My honors class swaps Fences for Gatsby. I also teach Gatsby to the summer school students. I think in my years of being here we have shifted more in favor of books that might be relevant to students/that they can relate to, but we are also moving away from "literature". They do Romeo and Juliet freshman year and then the senior teacher covers Othello, but there is not much in the way of other "challenging" texts.

    I am considering making the jump to 11th or 12th next year and bringing back Catcher in the Rye
     
  10. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Supporter

    From what I’ve observed of the conversation, it wasn’t about wanting people to read specifically the largely white western literary canon, but hoping for people to venture outside of lighter “pop” stuff, outside of their comfort zones, to embrace more challenging literary work, wherever that comes from. To your point, many white readers and male readers and straight readers would be benefited by seeking out works by authors of differing backgrounds, but the main issue in the conversation was the quality of the works being read. James Joyce is more valuable an experience to an adult reader than JK Rowling, for instance.

    I hesitate, though, at rejecting works or the “canon” because of the race/gender/sexuality/identity of the author. While overrepresented in most criticism and academia, there are important and influential works by white/male authors that have cross-cultural legacies, and critique of them is often more valuable from those who are familiar enough with the works speak to them in detail. Not to mention the writers from all backgrounds who are influenced by important works in the general “canon”. Baldwin loved Dostoevsky, Marlon James was influenced by Faulkner when he wrote Caribbean dialects and languages in A Brief History of Seven Killings. The lineage and relationships of literary works to each other is more nuanced and complex than the identity politics of the writers, critics, and audiences. It’s a useful part of trying to balance a literary diet (or general media diet), but part of what makes art meaningful and fascinating is the way works are influenced by and respond to each other across cultures, and personally I would pause before setting certain limitations on what someone wants to read or engage with artistically. That isn’t to say one has to read every “important” or “canon” book by dead white men (or white women), but I worry about the possibility that it could undermine a reader’s perspective to limit themselves in that way. Going back to a lot of the points made by others in the discussion, it’s about reading more than just comforting, commercial “pop” (for lack of a better phrase) entertainment, but about doing the work to seek out art that brings a reader out of their comfort zone and directly challenges them intellectually and emotionally. Obviously artists and writers of all backgrounds produce works like that, but the struggle is getting most people in today’s media climate to do that work, whatever their own background is. Much of the discussion was about balancing more simple, accessible, entertaining books with genuine attempts at broadening a reader’s intellectual/cultural palate. I hope that makes some sort of sense.
     
  11. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    The real challenge is the fact that post covid we are seeing such a decline in literacy levels when they get to high school that I have to spend so much time focusing on the basics of grammar and spelling that I am bordering on teaching phonics. You can attribute a lot to laziness or distractions, but the fact of the matter is a lot of these kids genuinely cannot read. That includes honors kids who can pass a class, they cannot read fluently in their heads or out loud. Therefore, I spend so much time in class reading the novels to/with them. 10 years ago I could trust the majority of kids to take a book home and at the very least skim the chapters they were supposed to read for information relevant to the discussion. Now, I am even hesitant to assign independent reading to my honors classes.
     
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  12. Morrissey

    Prestigious Prestigious

    My students hated Catcher in the Rye. The religious students did not like the brothel scene.
     
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  13. I mean it has to start somewhere, right? ppl aren't gonna make the jump to Breaking Bad and The Sopranos if all they watch is The Rookie and Chicago Med. By all means focus on challenging texts in class. Just also balance out who those texts are from
     
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  14. Marx&Recreation

    Trusted

    Along with Covid issues, my teacher friends all pretty unanimously despise Whole Language learning which apparently had a phase here in MN in lieu of phonics, and it has apparently wrecked the ability to read for even the most academically successful students
     
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  15. tvck

    the price of living, the art of suffering Prestigious

    I do not envy what you educators have to deal with these days and I'm sorry things are the way they are currently.
     
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  16. Morrissey

    Prestigious Prestigious

    Teaching isn't really that bad. You get to make fun of kids for seven hours and then you have all summer off.
     
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  17. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    Yeah I like my job. The world is bad
     
  18. Long Century

    Trusted

    The students are right
     
  19. OotyPa

    fall away Supporter

    I can't get into Salinger. Hated Franny and Zooey as well
     
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  20. Marx&Recreation

    Trusted

    Catcher in the Rye is one of the best. It just isn’t that fruitful to have children read it
     
  21. tvck

    the price of living, the art of suffering Prestigious

    good to hear that yall feel positive about the work you're doing. I was just getting the impression that it's getting more and more difficult to connect to kids in teaching environments (I have several friends who are professors in different fields and the stories they have sometimes are kinda funny/ridiculous) not that the job itself is bad.
     
  22. Morrissey

    Prestigious Prestigious

    The students are getting dumber and the politics around education are getting really bad but I am in an air conditioned room all day and I get to wear sandals to work.

    In all seriousness, it is a job that matters so it makes the job worthwhile. I could never do a job in sales or something because I do not want to take advantage of people or do something pointless.
     
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  23. tvck

    the price of living, the art of suffering Prestigious

    Totally fair. I work in data analytics for a SaaS company and it's soul crushing work, but the pay/benefits are nice. Thankfully I work for a product that is actually useful but yeah, your point is a valid one.
     
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  24. OotyPa

    fall away Supporter

    I work in tech for a big bank and it’s dark as fuck. Yesterday my entire team at work casually admitted to using ChatGPT for personal things as important as their career development and as menial as flirting advice. I was the odd one out to say I don’t use it at all. I often wonder how different things would feel if I were to become an educator. Hey at least my pay is great and I have good insurance.
     
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  25. tvck

    the price of living, the art of suffering Prestigious

    yeah, I'm basically expected to utilize AI at this point. My team was almost completely wiped out (8 out of 11) in a RIF 3 weeks ago and I was moved to a new team where I've only talked to my boss once since. Very cool stuff
     
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