[ That’s fair but I still think it’s a relatable concept that “whopper whopper double whopper” is a more popular song than anything I get enjoyment and satisfying artistic stimulation from listening to lol. Is it lame to me that stupid jingles like that designed to be invasive to your attention span make more money than any talented artist I know will make in their life with their music, yeah, of course lol. That’s a way worse version of what people are saying about Hunger Games. But if I took it personally that ad jingles that get stuck in peoples heads are unironically enjoyed because most people see music as background noise more so than something they want to intellectually engage with, I’d just be needlessly upsetting myself over a realm of art that has nothing to do with the way I consume the art. Populism is often surface level / shallow and always has been, the Venn diagram between that and engaging with something intellectually is almost two circles and you’re not really having an illuminating discussion to contrast them - point to one time in modern society that high art was preferred by the majority and maybe I’d get why this is an argument. That hasn’t been a thing since like, jazz music was created lol
Re-reading the beginning of the conversation multiple times I really don't see where the talking down was other than from Tetra which is like his entire thing. Every time "trash" was used there was a disclaimer that it was a relative term, and then there was an interesting discussion about the relative value of reading anything versus reading challenging literature and then the biggest most sensitive loser on the site called everyone sensitive for even talking about that lol
Right lol. I get this. My point is their jobs are to educate people on the topic at hand and, presumably, push them towards valuable and more worthwhile stuff in that medium. Your job as a musician isn’t that. Or at least it is the latter part and not the former.
A lot of it was tetra, who I like even though he doesn’t seem to like me for whatever reason lol, and I get that is part of his thing but I also get it being something that people wouldn’t like and it being part of his posting personality doesn’t excuse that. I also think ooty was doing it a bit reading the posts after it happened.
do we not see the irony here? The shit talking and name calling and assumptions about people in a whole side of the forum because we’ve had a few bad interactions with a few of the members, that’s universal. We are all going to vent to our closer friends when we interact with people we found offputting in a social environment. Better to just be realistic about it than point fingers.
If we’re talking more broadly about the idea of “let people like things,” I personally think a version of that sentiment is true and good. But, it depends on what’s actually meant by that. One way that gets utilized in a shitty way is being defensive about criticism of a thing you like, which is I think connected to that whole “poptimism” thing. I’m all for judging things on their own terms, but the defensiveness some people have about their dumb favs getting criticized is, well, dumb. And, the other is when it comes to people being settled and easily pleased in low hanging fruit entertainment across the board. No one should give a shit if an individual person likes certain things that aren’t elevated or whatever, but how content and cozy a lot of people are with their media consumption… idk, maybe some people need to raise their standards! Like, my bestie is the biggest Nickelback fan I know, saw them live 3 times in under 2 years. And, her comics diet is more superhero than mine. But, she’s also who got me into Ethel Cain, and works for an academic journal, and reads a lot of kinds of things, and pays proper attention to the world, etc. Anyone who would care that she likes “Animals” and Moon Knight in spite of her also being into Fanon would be a dork. I’m personally glad that I started to feel disappointed in myself a handful of years ago and started trying to read more. (I’m still a slow ass reader unfortunately, lol, and probably will remain as such to some degree, but thankfully it’s not a race.) It’s good to occasionally expect more of yourself and others, as long as you’re not needlessly an ass about it
You’re on the ball with what you said about expression. Wait what did I say to offend anyone? I’ve said several times now that people will like what they want and I’m not trying to appear superior or elitist. I was just stating how the booktok trends made me feel as an author.
Sorry dude no it's no the same because I'm referencing posts in this thread. The NFL thread is the only thread on the site where people regularly talk shit about people where they know they won't see it
Why do you think I dislike you? You are probably in the top five. I thought my "thing" was not wearing jeans.
I don't dislike anyone here. Again, we are talking about movies and books. The worst political opinions here are centrist Democrats.
I probably misread tone and sorry if I did. It can seem sometimes like the “I’m an author” (or Randall using the status as a musician) presents yourself as more of an expert in the field who knows more than other people in a way that shuts down counter arguments when in reality it does not, it just represents you pursuing the art form more. But again sorry if I was reading into that something that wasn’t there.
it's a public thread/website and spo said he went into there last night to see if anyone had talked about this conversation. it isn't some secret place man lol
I'm an author. I’ve published four books traditionally and writing my next one. What would you rather me identify as?
Oh, and an additional thought, somewhat related to what Tetra was saying earlier. Slightly a tangent, but related perhaps. I do think an additional value to engaging with different kinds of art and media is supporting it so that there’s more of it out there. Individually choosing not to see a certain movie isn’t actually activism (unless it’s part of an actual boycott with a purpose), but there should be some thought into, “do I want to spend some of my time and money on this other thing over here instead?” This isn’t really relevant per se when it comes to old classics (unless it is in a way I’m neglecting). But, for new works coming out… an author or cartoonist or filmmaker making a more interesting thing off the beaten path, paying for and engaging and publicly discussing it can make an impact. Beyond the impact of your mind and soul having engaged with something rad!
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying throwing that around when discussing literature seems like it is presenting your take as superior to those of people who aren’t writers. If Randall was like I’m a musician here is my take on blink 182 and why I think they suck … why would his perspective on the band matter more than people who are just using their ears?
I personally didn’t read that as him appealing to an expert sense of authority, so much as him saying it’s a big part of his life in a way that makes him extra invested in the issue. Like, it’s more personal to him and affects him more, y’know?
got it. I’m not trying to use status as a superiority tool. I’m just in the trenches out here and sharing how that makes me feel. Sorry if it appeared I was punching down. Also sorry if I’m not expressing myself clearly. This conversation is exhausting.
Right. My first post on this today was saying this. I get it is a part of their daily life more than others. I just do think that also leads to a tone in the posting that can come across as patronizing
I'm sorry for taking so long to hop in here, I was very tired last night as I saw this unfurl and wanted to approach with a clearer head. Mod hat is on right now. Pat is right that the NFL Thread isn't just a shit talking haven but that the shit talking still does need to stop. As he said, everyone is guilty of it including me (sometimes especially me). I don't fault Grimace for popping in to express some frustration about something going on - he didn't even say names or point at threads - so Grimace if you are reading this I don't want you to feel singled out in any way about this because if anything you did exactly what you should do, expressed frustration and then backed out when you felt like you were needing a break. Everyone else who came in here, I empathize with because I know exactly how you feel, it just does end up exactly how OhTheWater detailed, us riling each other up and then each coming in here hot individually but ending up being a "gang up" situation due to the numbers and timing. I know the desire is just to vent about something going on in your day and talk about it (as it was with the A1 thread way back when). It does end up being nothing more than shit talking when it's done like this though and we gotta figure something else out before it really is the only defining trait. I don't think attacking people for posting in the NFL Thread is particularly helpful either but I do feel like that's a natural reaction to seeing yourself or someone you care about in this situation. It does seem silly for the thread to talk shit about other threads but when the thread comes up here/in genpol/in Q&A all of a sudden there's disbelief people could have a problem with it. But it still has reached a point where obviously nothing good is coming out of calling those things out and striking back. Some pieces of this conversation have devolved to a point where it should stop. Others have been very productive and helped people understand each other better whether about the original topic of conversation or about what it's turned into. I don't know if the conversation as a whole should stop because of the latter, but I'll say that I'll be dishing out points if it becomes more shit slinging in either direction. If there's a problem with how I'm handling any of this or talking about any of this you can DM me and we can talk about it more or we can argue with each other in a relevant thread (I don't wanna keep people from talking about entertainment in here) but we've gotta be treating each other with more respect in here and in general. I'm sorry again for taking so long and also sorry if I'm not being the most articulate. I do think we're reaching the point where people are simmering down so maybe this is pointless anyway but I want it to be known this isn't being ignored. I've got love for y'all and do understand where all of you are coming from to an extent so I don't want anything to come across as finger pointing as much as just identifying a big problem that I've been a part of as well.