1. Limited edition Chorus.fm Pride Merch is available for the month of June. All proceeds to go to charity.
    Dismiss Notice

Eminem – The Marshall Mathers LP

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, May 21, 2020.

  1. Melody Bot

    Your friendly little forum bot. Staff Member

    This article has been imported from chorus.fm for discussion. All of the forum rules still apply.

    Listening to Eminem when I was growing up was like eating forbidden fruit. Now that I look back on it, my mom was spot on for not allowing me to own The Marshall Mathers LP album. Instead, I listened to it with friends at summer camp back in the summer of 2000. Strangely enough, my love for rap and hip-hop would blossom from this particular, ridiculously controversial album.

    The Marshall Mathers LP is still revered as an iconic album. Eminem raps laps around any competition, and his expression of emotion (a lot of rage) is undeniably intoxicating. But, if you take a listen from start to finish, you’ll be reminded that much of what you’ll hear didn’t land well back in 2000, and is still cringe-worthy today, even if it most of it is just schtick.

    Take “Kim,” for instance. Eminem is heard arguing with his ex, which gets more intense as the song progresses. “Kim” ultimately ends with the rapper killing her as he shouts “bleed, b—-, bleed!” and you actually hear her gasping her final breaths. Imagine a song like this released by a mega artist today in the midst of the #MeToo movement? Yikes. No dice.

    “Kill You” was another track that stirred up controversy in 2000 and also has aged liked 2% milk left out of the fridge on a hot day. Slim Shady went off on his mother in this song while also throwing some nasty shots discussing violence against women. (Although this is yet another track that will leave you feeling uncomfortable, Eminem has since righted this wrong by apologizing to his mother on the song “Headlights” that was on 2013′ s The Marshall Mathers LP2.)

    “Criminal” and “Amityville” also had moments with violence against women, with Slim Shady killing a female bank teller on “Criminal” and I’m not even going to type what was said on “Amityville.” That’s one you can look into for yourself. Eminem also uses homophobic slurs throughout the album. Then, of course, there was the Ken Kaniff skit track, which like “Amityville,” I’m just not going to get into.

    Despite the fact that there’s so much that’s not ok on this album, there are still parts of it that show why Eminem is considered one of the best rappers of all time, especially the hits.

    “The Real Slim Shady” is still a jam. The track has an incredibly great beat produced by hip-hop legend Dr. Dre and a chorus that I still know every word to until this day. The track is signature Eminem with him poking fun at anyone and everyone throughout the song. The album’s other hit, “The Way I Am,” also still holds its own. This is a track full of self-awareness and an anthem for Eminem being unapologetic for who he is.

    “Stan” remains a song that’s as impressive and dark today as it was then. Eminem raps as obsessed Eminem fan “Stan” over a catchy beat that includes a sample of Dido’s “Thank You.” “Stan” slowly descends into madness as the track goes on, becoming more unhinged with each verse. Stan, a fan of Slim Shady’s writes letters that go unanswered by the rapper until it’s too late. This track remains haunting, but the captivating storytelling is something not many rappers can do.

    Even when you dig a little deeper than the hits, there are still some B-Sides that remain strong. The best of these has to be “Bitch Please II”, which would’ve fit right in on Dr. Dre’ s 2001. The features of Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Xzibit and Nate Dogg all deliver and it’s still a fun track in 2020. This is a sequel to Snoop Dogg’s 1999 single “Bitch Please” which also featured Xzibit and Nate Dogg and was produced by Dre.

    Other notable B-Sides include “Who Knew,” “Marshall Mathers” and “Under the Influence.” On “Who Knew,” Eminem makes fun of the idea that he’s a negative influence and causes people to do horrible things. He also cleverly comments on society’s effects on the youth and throws some shots at bad parenting. “Marshall Mathers” finds Eminem dealing with the fallout of the success of 1999’s “The Slim Shady LP.” “Under the Influence” was cool because it was the first time we got D12 on an Eminem album and they’d go on to take off a few years later.

    I’ll even throw in “I’m Back” here as an honorable mention. The track is like a less good version of “The Real Slim Shady” with lyrics that a 13-year-old would think was great, but not so much someone flirting with 30.

    I can’t say that I’d recommend listening to The Marshall Mathers LP in 2020, but at the same time, I can’t say don’t listen. There are songs that should never be heard from ever again. Yet at the same time, there are some tracks that should always have a place on early 2000’s rap playlists and live on.

    In two years we’ll get a chance to do a retrospective on his best album, The Eminem Show, when that turns 20 in 2022. This album should serve as a better example of why Eminem is one of the best rappers of this time and is where the real Slim Shady stood the tallest.

    more

    Not all embedded content is displayed here. You can view the original to see embedded videos, tweets, etc.
     
  2. Ska Senanake

    Trusted

    This is his magnum opus, as messed up as it is. Great review though.
     
    rdk154 likes this.
  3. Rawrz

    Newbie

    Kim will always be my favorite Eminem song. Its insanely messed up but I can't think of another song I've ever heard with such raw passion and emotion.
     
    rdk154 and DeRRek like this.
  4. ScruffGruff

    Newbie

    Ugh I’m going to get banned for this comment but I’m drinking tonight so here goes. I feel like this review is really bandwagony and a result of the influence of droll Ronald McDonald twitter discourse. Yes, “Kim” is absolutely a despicable song. Does it really work to champion violence against women? Does anyone really listen to that song and think, damn, I’m pumped now, I really wanna go beat a Woman?” Eminem was writing from his experiences and from the perspective of the Id, to use Freudian terms. If #Metoo has taught us anything it’s that violence against women is much more common that we would have liked to believe. We also know that in areas of poverty, the statistics on domestic violence and abuse is disturbingly huge. “Kim” is disturbing intentionally and the listener is meant to leave disturbed Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to these realities? Should we “cringe” when a movie comes out in 2020 and a man hits a woman on TV even though it’s a fair depiction of our reality?

    this review says “retrospective” but it’s really no different from the reviews that came out the same year the album was released. Everyone wanted to protest and cancel Eminem then too. This review gives us absolutely no new insight on the album other that the internet seems filled with pseudo-“enlightened” warriors for women who feel they are making a difference by pointing out the obvious “men hitting women = bad.”

    You can tell me the album is horrible or tell me it’s a masterpiece as long as you do it in an insightful way. This is the same boring “is listening to Eminem ethical?” conversation that has been around for decades now. It’s tired.

    if anything it shows us that people who grow up seeing terrible shit and in poverty have no business being in the mainstream discourse. In 2020, If you weren’t taught how to be chivalrous to women As a child, or you can’t afford a full home recording studio you have no place to depict your reality. This feels like a result of years acquiring an ethical code from the omniscient Twitter verse which you use merely to go back and point out that a rapper in the 90s was mean to women.

    “so I’m catching the flack from these activists When they raggin acting like I’m the first rapper to smack a bitch and say ***got? Shiiit.”

    We get it. Eminem isn’t cool anymore. Can we please move on to something else to talk about rather than shit on both the man’s new music AND his legacy?
     
  5. Serh

    @TiredOfSeth Prestigious

    oh god
     
    RyanPm40 and KidLightning like this.
  6. Preserved Moose

    Gritty pre-Computer Days

    My main takeaway from this is that B side means album track now apparently.
     
  7. IAmMikeWhite

    @IAmMikeWhite Supporter

    Yeah, they’re not b-sides. The reviewer means “album cuts.” “The Kids” is a b-side. Super nit-picky, here. Sorry.
     
  8. Mike

    Newbie

    This “retrospective review” is incredibly poorly written. Despite my mixed feelings on presentism, this review is poorly laid out and lacks any meaningful insight . I agree with ScruffGruff:
    In 2020 I rarely listen to The Marshall Mathers LP. I have moved on from this kind of music and consider it a snapshot of twenty years ago.

    I do not want to go line by line about how this review is disappointing but one point I would like to highlight is that one would have to be deliberately obtuse to believe that, even in 2000, Marshall was condoning or glorifying the murder of an intimate partner. The song is very clearly meant to be repulsive. This retrospective could have delved into the serious topics on the MMLP beyond a cursory shallow survey and instead there is a complete lack of depth. While “’97 Bonnie and Clyde” was a satire on the same subject of domestic violence and a bit of a parody of the Will Smith song, “Just The Two Of Us” — “Kim” is visceral and abhorrent and it succeeds in its aim:

    (Source: NCADV | National Coalition Against Domestic Violence)

    The statistics on the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (NCADV) may or may not come as a shock, depending on how well read one is on the subject of domestic violence — but both “’97 Bonnie and Clyde” and “Kim” are an artistic foray into an incredibly serious topic. “Kim” is a controversial song, it is unpleasant to listen to but it is also effective. Has it aged well when viewed from a lens in 2020? Perhaps, perhaps not. I would not fault someone for not wanting to listen to the song, in much the same way that I wouldn’t fault someone for avoiding the thriller and horror genres of movies. The song itself makes a statement. It is powerful because it is emotional and repulsive. The issues of domestic violence have not dissipated in the last twenty years and, especially during the pandemic, the dialogue that these songs beg for are as salient as ever.

    The irony of even remotely considering that Marshall may be condoning domestic violence is that, in the same review, you praise “Stan” for the storytelling. Stan succeeds in being powerful because in addition to the storytelling, it offers a commentary on both mental illness and domestic violence. Two separate lines can be used as a compass of how Marshall may actually feel about domestic violence: “I really think you and your girlfriend need each other/or maybe you just need to treat her better” and “I seen this one shit on the news a couple weeks ago that made me sick…

    Overall, a retrospective review of The Marshall Mathers LP could be an insightful piece that considers both the snapshot of the era it was released and how, we as listeners, have grown (or outgrown) the music. This "review" does an extremely poor job and comes across as a juvenile, lazy effort that says almost nothing of value and falls far short in every discernible way.
     
  9. If you still have a Brand New avatar right now I don’t care about your opinion on anything to be honest. :shrug:
     
  10. AMC

    Regular

    I just played this with headphones on. Wow
     
  11. PissinintheWind

    Not Miserable Now

    Pretty lame that you would dismiss someones' opinion based solely on their avatar :shrug:
     
    Quercus, fran.182 and ScruffGruff like this.
  12. Nah. Shows the kinda person they are if they still support someone that abused a friend of mine.
     
  13. ScruffGruff

    Newbie

    That makes the comment more understandable. Probably didn’t know it was your friend. I wouldn’t take it to that personal level though. Just a heads up though, this site still covers a lot of bands that have done a lot of worse things than Jesse has. Stephan Jenkins from 3eb is a well-known world class POS. If you want to cancel every asshole shitty person in music, there’s a lot of work yet to be done here.
     
    Quercus likes this.
  14. Just shut up, you don't need to comment on this.
     
    ScruffGruff likes this.
  15. riotspray

    Trusted Prestigious

    Gotta agree with Jason on the BN stuff, but also agree that this review is weak. If Eminem ever physically laid his hands on a women, it'd be a different story, but his music is just art, and art isn't always pretty.
     
  16. bakin

    Newbie

    Any different than promoting this album on their website? For what, clicks? Lol.
     
    ScruffGruff likes this.
  17. This post doesn’t even make any sense.
     
  18. Matt Chylak

    I can always be better, so I'll always try. Supporter

    Not sure why there are multiple people in here shitting on a user review for no reason. If you've ever tried to write something serious you know it isn't easy.
     
  19. ScruffGruff

    Newbie

    rule 1: don’t attempt criticism unless you’re prepared to take criticism. I’m sure this is a great guy, but when you oversimplify something so deeply, people will inevitably defend it.

    this album is a classic for a reason and when evaluated, it should be respected as such.
     
  20. Matt Chylak

    I can always be better, so I'll always try. Supporter

    I'm not sure what your issue is, but you're being a dick. He's not a professional reviewer making a grand thesis, he's a guy writing about an album that meant something to him at one point and trying to work out why it no longe does. There's no reason for the heavy-handed response that you and a handful of other people have descended onto this thread with, criticizing his writing, word choices, etc. It's not "fair criticism", it's bullying.
     
  21. ScruffGruff

    Newbie

    let’s not use the word “bullying” so loosely bro. Bullying requires an imbalance of power. Like the leader of a website telling you to “shut up.” I’m just a dude on the internet. Please don’t take me that seriously.
     
  22. bakin

    Newbie

    You're ultra quick to dismiss someone based on an avatar they chose, yet you choose to promote this album on your own website. Why? What's the difference? He doesn't seem to mind Brand New, and you don't seem to mind the content of this album. It's literally so misogynistic the reviewer can't even type the words on it, yet it's being glamorized as a work of art. I've seen artists completely shut down on this website for saying 1/100th of what's on this album, yet this is OK? Double standard (or no standard), it seems. Oh well.
     
    Quercus and ScruffGruff like this.
  23. You think this essay, which I didn't write, is "promoting" the album? How in your twisted brain did you get to me not minding the content on this album because someone else wrote an essay about it? Or to me saying this album is ok? :crylaugh: My history and thoughts on Eminem are so well know there are entire threads on Eminem fan-message-boards that have death threats toward me and my family because of them. You're stretched so thin with this one I can see through you.
     
    RyanPm40 likes this.
  24. ScruffGruff

    Newbie

    them fools are wayyy outta pocket. Sorry you have to put up with that.
     
  25. bakin

    Newbie

    Um, yes? Because it is. The majority of the review talks about the positive highlights of it and why I should listen.

    I got it in my brain that you don't mind it because you allowed it to be posted on your website. You can present whatever sort of narrative you want about how much you dislike Eminem, that's fine, but am I going to put more stock in things you've said in the past, or allowing the promotion of a graphic, misogynistic, homophobic album on your website?

    I've been coming here long enough to know you don't condone the content of this album. It's just that seeing someone shut down a Brand New avatar while simultaneously hosting the promotion of this album seemed a little... ironic. But hey, I've also been coming here long enough to know I'm not going to change your mind either, so it's all good. Have a good weekend!
     
    ScruffGruff likes this.